OK, OK , OK ....you may look at this post and instantly think "Chav!!!", but please dont..its only me!!

Right, my black Sporting has bucket seats in it, which are causing no end of havoc, with me trying to find a way to make them tilt...

Tilting isnt as much of a problem any more - OMP do a universal tilting subframe, i'll buy one and bodge it to fit!![}]

The new problem is harnesses- I'm going to put 3 point harnesses in as the standard seatbelts aren't adequate with these seats,
Thing is, If I'm carrying rear passengers, they dont really want a belt in their face the whole while....plus, I'd prefer a stealthier installation.

I understand it is illegal to alter the seatbelt mounting points yourself..A qualifed?? mechanic must do it, Ok, not a problem, I can get a mech monkey to put a hole in the floor for a small sum.

But thing is, where should I mount the rear mounting...I was thinking to mount it on the strengthened chassis member below the seat, very tidy and out of the way..

But, considering safety, i understand that mounting the belts so the main pivot at the occupants shoulders can create compression injuries in the event of a hard collision- resulting in spinal damage or damage to the chest cavity...

So I'm really in two minds about mounting...Opinions??

Tom (AofB)

1 x 93' Cinq SX
1 x 95' Cinq Sporting
= Loads a' fun!

Only wear full harness belts if you have a cage. If you don't have a cage and roll the car there will be no way you can duck out of the way of the roof coming in if you are secured in with harnii.

cheers

D

Grumpy old git going fast downhill rather than downhill fast!!

Erm, I can see your point entirely there, but isnt there also the same problem with standard belts?

In fact, wouldnt a standard belt impede your avoidance more due to the belt going across your collarbone? Also, i'm noticing these seats are fairly high, so if the roof were to be crushed, they would partially absorb the impact.

Im probably wrong...but that is at least how I see it.

Couldn't I mount them onto the B-Pillar mounts (usually used for the std belts)??

Tom (AofB)

1 x 93' Cinq SX
1 x 95' Cinq Sporting
= Loads a' fun!

In the event of a roll wearing a lap and diagonal, you have the option to lean towards the centre of the car removing your napper from the direction the roof is headed.

My brother avoided serious injury when he rolled his car a few years ago by ducking into the middle of the car. His passenger managed to inbed a tooth in his head as he ducked into the midde shortly after my brother, but they both walked away from a very flat car.

Cheers

D

Grumpy old git going fast downhill rather than downhill fast!!

TBH if you rolled a Cinq i think you would be pretty b*ggered, no matter how you were restrained. Unless of course you have a roll cage. Now i dunno how much better this kinda harness would be in a standard head on accident, if there is such a thing as a standard accident.
I think preventing facial re-arrangement by a steering wheel would be a greater concern of mine instead of rolling it.

...by ducking into the middle of the car.

Click to expand...

If both passenger and driver do this then there is chance that they may try and occupy the same space, which wouldnt work.

GeX
"Women are hurt by the smallest things, like papercuts and... childbirth!"

Yeah...I think Id personally put my head between my legs and kiss my arse..

Tom (AofB)

1 x 93' Cinq SX
1 x 95' Cinq Sporting
= Loads a' fun!

If you can do that I think I can get you a stage job in Amsterdam!

Cheers

D

Grumpy old git going fast downhill rather than downhill fast!!

Anyway... back to the subject! Why not get the harnesses bolted in to the rear seatbelt clip bolt hole and have a clip on the belt that runs from this to the harnesses so that when you have rear passengers you can unclip the 3 point harness and use the standard belt.

Matt

______________________________________________________

Signature space for rent, reasonable rates, apply within.

While most Cinqs are unreliable...mines just taking the pi55

One of the harness manufacturers does that kind of harness. I suppose it would be slightly more helpful if I could remember which.

Cheers

D

Grumpy old git going fast downhill rather than downhill fast!!

Hmmm, been considering that, Im only running one harness atm because the seats cant tilt, yet...that was this weekend job but I need some steel, so its next weekends job!

But back to mounting points, Ive come up with quite a good one...rear wheelarch. Might sound strange, but I reckon with some reinforcing, it would be OK...ideas?

Im thinking 100*100*3 steel plate on both sides of the arch (Bent to wheelarch profile)....sound OK to yu?

Oh, and Sparco and OMP make those double-release harnesses, i'm going to use one of the passenger side- as that seat will tilt!

This method is nice, as its very stealthy, and doesnt interfere with the passengers!

Tom (AofB)

Snapped exhaust flexipipe becoming GrpN ASAP!

Wheel arch sounds like it would be an uneven pull in the event of a frontal impact. I would stick with between the rear seat back and squab. Mine are on the rear strut brace.

Cheers

D

Grumpy old git going fast downhill rather than downhill fast!!

Right been measuring up...At most, the lateral angle from the harness slot to the proposed point is 25 degrees.

FIA regs say max recommended of 20 degs, im not racing. so I think this leeway might be OK.

Im only saying the recommended figures- the rear vertical angle from the slot to the mount is 45 degrees (maximum- not recommended) but notice the back mount hasnt got this for the horizontal angle...

http://www.ompusa.com/harness_notes.htm Look at the drawing at the bottom of the page and see if yu get my drift!

--Updated--
Been doing calculations for plates etc....

According to DVLC(NI), a minibus rear mount must be able to maintain a loading of around 20x its original weight for a period of 0.2s.

Im driving a car, but going to extend that to 50x the original weight (the belt'll give out before the seat does). According to the parts CD the original seat weighs 13kg (call it 20kg), so the plate must be able to withstand 1 ton \ 10kN of static load.

A plate 100 * 100 mm has a loading capacity (assuming 115N/mm maximum load - very low, but safe!) of 1150kN theoretically.

Im thinking, try and mount that to the point where the suspenssion would mount- that has to be strong.

Either by mounting it directly to the point, or fabricating a plate that mounts into the mountings for the rear torsion arm...

Tom (AofB)

GrpN Catback Exhaust system is here...just need to get the bleeder on now!!

Why not just use the ones that are already there?

Cheers

D

Grumpy old git going fast downhill rather than downhill fast!!

--Out on the Bump again--

The rear lower mounts? Was advised to try that on friday by the guy fitting my GrpN zorst ("Ive got those seats in me Novoh!")

Hehehe..made me snigger...gave it a go..with rear seat belt and harness in this position, the rear seat back will not sit in its correct position, the bracket needs to pass through where the bolt currently is...If the overall length of the bolt with the shims on could be shortenened by about 6 maybe 10mm at most-the bracket would pass through unhindered.

Given this area is designed to resist shear only and not really bearing loads, could I just take a lump hammer to this mount, and lightly encourage it to get marginally nearer the wheel??

Cheers!

Tom (AofB)

GrpN Catback Exhaust system is here...just need to get the bleeder on now!!

--Out on the Bump Yet Again!--

Tried it...needed a small bit of coersion? with a lump hammer...fits like a treat.

Tom (AofB)

GrpN Catback Exhaust system is here...just need to get the bleeder on now!!

in theory looking at that photo the best place to mount the rear harness mount would be on the c pillar mount for te rear seatbelts

just an idea maybe im wrong

The younger modder