Hello everybody,

As I saw in my presentation thread, my wife has an accident in February 15th 2019 with her 96 Cinquecento Sporting.

This car will be restored completely by myself in a process that will be a lot of years long because I'm unemployed and I'm planning to move to France from Belgium, so car will be wait for a long time....


The idea it's to replace ALL steel parts for new ones, welded as there was in factory assembly line. I have almost all tools I'll need (my hobby it's to restore my Oldtimers and Youngtimers Renault) so I have some skills to do that, and I'll develop other skills.

This thread it's open to exchange, and all your intervention will be appreciated. It doesn't open to fight and non subject commentaries. I'll asked you a lot for details, pictures, pieces and I hope you will be able to give me the infos and help I'll certainly need. I'll help you also with my knowledge in old car's world.

Don't hesitate to write here, you're welcome!


Now, it's time to show you the start of my work

First of all, the car after it's crash, maybe it was some ice on the road (but Cinque has winter tyres), all that my wife remember its the car turning in all directions until it's stops. I'll fount it in that way:



























Fortunately, except the rear axle, all structural lower side of the car wasn't damaged, all measures are OK so chassis it's safe to back on the road again in the future. If I would have any doubts the car won't be repaired, of course.

One month later the truck finally puts the Cinque at home, but the problem it's that my garage it's really small, I have only 40 centimetres clearance at both sides, and only 20 centimetres clearance at rear side....:bang:

It's home for some time (you can see my MIG welding machine):



Now it's time to take a closer look of the damages:













So roof it's plied wind-shield frame it's plied, right hand door and RH A pillar it's also plied, both side's fenders front and rear are plied, and bonnet and hatch are plied too.. It's makes a lot of steel to replace... plus both bumpers, all lights, mirrors, both radiators and their fan.... and even EU driver's seat (passenger seat in the UK)


Fortunately, one time fenders go off, both bottoms A pillar are OK:










The frame of wind-shield it's good to replace:



And dashboard has plied, that proves that A pillar has moved at it's top. Now the priority was unmount dashboard to avoid permanent damages and be able to keep it, so, let's go:





The RH door and A pillar need to be replaced, and wind-shield frame too:











Not enough place to work.... :bang:







With a red marker I'll draw the damaged pieces:















The dashboard has been token out and these ply has despaired with some heat so I can re-utilize it again










Floor side it's OK, no misaligned at all, nice!








Unmounting dashboard:































And it's out finally, we can see that ply in A pillar it's easily repairable







Here the ply in red:





And that's all for today, I have both seat's out and also rear arm (I shall change rear axle completely because mine it's broken) but it will be for a next post soon.

Enjoy the work and greetings!

Got to be honest, that shell should never see the road again. It's far too bent out of shape and you'll never be able to get factory strength back into it.

Thanks for your honest opinion, anyway, none shell compounds that affect to safety has been damaged.

I'll be as honest as you, it's a 90's car, influence in strengthen of upper side of the car it's minimal and in FIAT body repair's manual are well explained how to change those pieces.

Every day a lot of car came back on the road with crash bigger than this with no matter and no risk. It's only question of skills and well done work respecting all manufacturer process detailed at it's bodywork repair manual.

I'll invite you to be patient (some years ) and take a look at this thread sometimes. I think finally you maybe change your opinion.

And thanks again to write here, all opinions are very important to me, not only positive opinion. I only ask people to be polite and you had been, thanks!

Luis-

You need to get the battery out of that immediately.

I admire what you are doing, and I can't believe how far you've got- but also how far you have to go.

It would take more than a lot for that be acceptable for an MOT test here, but If you reckon you can source or fabricate the panels required; then it's only a matter of time.

A restoration-garage said to me once;

'There's no such thing, as a write-off- There is only a point where it is no longer 'economic' to continue with a repair'

Meaning; money & time aside; anything can brought back from the brink.

dante giacosa said:

Luis-

You need to get the battery out of that immediately.

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Hello dante! Don't worry for battery, it's unplugged permanently, those pictures are taken immediately I washed the car out of my garage (it had a lot of salt of de-icing winter roads that I doesn't leave for years). Engine runs well and car goes into my garage from truck by it's own engine power. All other time battery it's permanently unplugged. Thanks anyway

dante giacosa said:

I admire what you are doing, and I can't believe how far you've got- but also how far you have to go.

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Thanks again for your words, it's only a matter of time, patient and money, I have enough skills to do that correctly and in a safe way. We bought a new car for my wife because her Cinque won't be finished in between 5 and 10 years I think (I restored myself my Renault 9 Turbo and it's took me almost 5 years)

dante giacosa said:

It would take more than a lot for that be acceptable for an MOT test here, but If you reckon you can source or fabricate the panels required; then it's only a matter of time.

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I'll be clear and honest, I live in France and there wasn't nobody at crash place (even the French Police it wasn't), nobody knew the accident was happened, but I sent the documents of this car in Spain and actually it's outer circulation by an accident. Documents are retained and cancelled in Spanish MOT. To recuperate them I'll must to pass a complete and specific Spanish MOT (that means to travel from France or from Belgium to Spain with Cinque over a lorry or in a truck because the car isn't authorized to move by itself until it hasn't been checked) that will verify that car and reparation it's OK and safe. I'm from Spain, not from any African country and I'll never repair a car that I'm not sure it's safer no more, and it's it. Safety cell isn't damaged. I'm 46 years old and works with cars (hobby) since I was 18, I'm civil engineer and I know the mechanical steel properties and precautions about welding metallics structures that I'll respect of course. It's so that restoration not only not affrayed me but it's a motivation source to walk again in a hard life's period.

You can see in that picture below that it was retired of circulation ("BAJA TEMPORAL" last 21th (time to arrival the documents in Spain by postal services):




For original pieces, take a look below, in Poland, and in Hungary there are almost all pieces in new and with original quality. Probably even in Fiat dealers there are available too (I must verify before to buy):




























































































Evidently, I doesn't need ALL these pieces, but all of them (and more other ones) are actually available for sale in new.

dante giacosa said:

A restoration-garage said to me once;

'There's no such thing, as a write-off- There is only a point where it is no longer 'economic' to continue with a repair'

Meaning; money & time aside; anything can brought back from the brink.

Click to expand...

I'm agree 200%, everything it's repairable, if you want I'll linked a guy that repaired itself a Ferrari Testarossa bought in a junk-yard in France with a big crash (more that 1000 pages!!!).

The more expensive it's labour and it will made by myself. Some years ago I paid two times (in cash, that was my mistake ) for spraying in black my Renault 9 Turbo 3000 € at time in two garages (so 6k € at total) and car finally is in a "low" good quality for my standards. I saw I have a lot of skills, but painting isn't one of them. I'll have 7 car and two scooter to paint in the future so I'll buy a big compressor and practice until develop painting skills, result I'm sure it won't be perfect, but at least there will be my painting mistakes, not of a"professional" car paint that cost a fortune for a non quality result, and I could paint those car as many times as necessary to get a convenient finish.

So once the labour cost it's zero (it's my hobby at my free time) cost of raw material and pieces are "affordable"

Thanks again for your words and for follow this thread.

Cheers.

Luis

You say the safety cell isn’t damaged, yet the roof is creased and the A pillar is very definitely bent on at least one side.

Not sure why you feel this is worthwhile, but I’d never put my wife or myself in that car after repair.

I can't believe you've sourced a roof, Luis!

I had no idea such panels were still available.

I think you certainly benefit from being 'nearer' Italy (and in this case; Poland) than we do here in the UK.

(shortly; it's going to be a lot harder for us in fact!)

I find your optimism inspirational- I'm not sure I could sustain interest in a 5 to 10 year resto without the car running within that time.
Not to say- I haven't put 5 to 10 years into improving cars that I've already got- but I like the idea of a 'rolling-resto' more!

well done. so far

Wow that Cinq has taken a beating.
Here in the UK that car is worth only scrap value as the shell is toast and i for one would not put it back on the road.
BUT, if that little car has some sentimental value for you and you have the tools and skills to make it safe and roadworthy again good luck to you.
I will be following with interest.

dante giacosa said:

I can't believe you've sourced a roof, Luis!

I had no idea such panels were still available.

I think you certainly benefit from being 'nearer' Italy (and in this case; Poland) than we do here in the UK.

(shortly; it's going to be a lot harder for us in fact!)

I find your optimism inspirational- I'm not sure I could sustain interest in a 5 to 10 year resto without the car running within that time.
Not to say- I haven't put 5 to 10 years into improving cars that I've already got- but I like the idea of a 'rolling-resto' more!

well done. so far

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Hi dante, not only a roof but two roof in two different dealers as like other pieces they bought old stocks from FSO factory.

My optimism it's due my life's experience, I must leave my country 7 years ago for different personal reasons and I'm planning to leave France to move in Belgium again, with these experiences I need some activity other than my job to kept my mind active (last summer I make myself an "own" engine for one of my Vespa scooter with my hands and self machined process that has attempt 9000 rpm that's not bad for a Vespa style engine, only as an intellectual defy). An yes, I'm very patient because I have other 6 cars (7 with the Fiat) and two Vespa, so I can let one of two beside for a lot of time, the key for me it's to work at least and ONLY no more than 2 restoration at same time so I can change for one to another and I have also other cars to drive.

alfacool said:

Wow that Cinq has taken a beating.
Here in the UK that car is worth only scrap value as the shell is toast and i for one would not put it back on the road.
BUT, if that little car has some sentimental value for you and you have the tools and skills to make it safe and roadworthy again good luck to you.
I will be following with interest.

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Yes, the main value of this car it's sentimental, if not it were sent direct to junk-yard. Thanks for your words and thanks to follow me too

Did I see you'd also managed to source a brand new A-pillar/windscreen surround?

puntofan01 said:

Did I see you'd also managed to source a brand new A-pillar/windscreen surround?

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I can see the cosmetic, rather than structural, panel.

There is no way that shell should ever see the road again.

Whilst I admire the skills and enthusiasm, that’s never going to be properly straight and strong again. It worries me that someone could potentially buy it without knowing how badly it was damaged.

puntofan01 said:

Did I see you'd also managed to source a brand new A-pillar/windscreen surround?

Click to expand...

Yes, it's still brand new available, even at Fiat dealers

Schumi2001 said:

I can see the cosmetic, rather than structural, panel.

There is no way that shell should ever see the road again.

Whilst I admire the skills and enthusiasm, that’s never going to be properly straight and strong again. It worries me that someone could potentially buy it without knowing how badly it was damaged.

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First of all, I invite you to look for and read FIAT 506.610 repair book, you'll learn what it's structural at these cars and what isn't, and how to repair structural and cosmetic compounds. Without read it and without see the car (I'm very surprised you seem see damages in pictures better than myself at real car ) your evaluation of "how badly it was damaged" it's uncertain and untrue because none of structural compounds described by Fiat at it's 606.610 repair book it's involved.

It worries me that you run in trackdays with a chinese ebay 200£ suspension kit, but it doesn't concern me so I shut me up :devil:


Second, if you compare the market value of a Cinq / Sei Sporting (even an Abarth or Schumacker edition) with the money I'll spent to repair this one, you doesn't need to be a math's teacher to realize that this car it wont be for sale in the future. (and I'd pixillated my license plates if my plan were to sell it in the future, you doesn't think?)


Third, I open these thread to let everybody to know better how these cars are made and as a good opportunity to see all details of it's construction. If you doesn't stop your 2 cents tips that are unconstructive I close this thread, but I think it's that you're looking for since your first message here :slayer:

Have a nice day

maxinou said:

Third, I open these thread to let everybody to know better how these cars are made and as a good opportunity to see all details of it's construction. If you doesn't stop your 2 cents tips that are unconstructive I close this thread, but I think it's that you're looking for since your first message here :slayer:

Have a nice day

Click to expand...

Solved :

Hey Luis-

don't take these comments as a personal criticism.

This is a public forum with free opinion, and I don't think anyone has been offensive towards you. Perhaps you feel your skills have been insulted- it is quite daunting to see what you are facing.

There is no one here who would attempt this I think.

You positivity is inspiring however- and I'm sure this will be fascinating journey that you have allowed people to share in.

Hi dante!

I know this is a public forum, and I'm open to all opinion, even negative ones, don't worry (if not I'd never open this thread).

Of course, I haven't feeling that my skills are insulted and even in that case it's doesn't matter to me.

That I NEVER will accept it's a guy that speaks with no knowledge of what FIAT says it's structural and what isn't suggest that I'm a theft that will repair a damaged car to sell it after that. I spent one complete month after the accident to study FIAT bodywork and repair manuals (as I done always to work in my other car or scooters). After that I'd verified that all structural dimensions were into original manufacturer values. Then I looked for NOS pieces availability, and after that, I took the decision to restore it for my own use only.
I even show that I sent car's documents to MOT authorities in Spain that obliges me to make a well done repair because the car will be completely checked after to obtain again it's road documents, and these action it's me that I made it voluntarily because if I want NOBODY has never knew that this car has had an accident.

So NOT, I don't NEVER tolerate that this guy suggest that I'm a theft to repair a car that he doesn't know it's real condition to sell it after that.

I'm sorry but NOT with these kind of false accusations.

any movement on this, Luis..?

Yes, it has a new rear axle and it will be over it's wheels soon. I'm so busy at this time with other subjects so the little Cinq wait for some free time. I wasn't in France last week and I have a lot of things to do actually.

How are you doing with the car maxinou?

Nice to know you can get all parts.

dx90 said:

How are you doing with the car maxinou?

Nice to know you can get all parts.

Click to expand...

Hi,

The Cinq is over its new rear axle from a moment, so I finally put it on its wheels so I can run it out of my small garage, it gots out and was cleaned to remove all dust and winter sel some weeks ago. Now it rest again in my garage behind my two Vespa Scooter while attempt to move into a bigger garage with enough room to work on it. Still some months to wait until restoration starts.

I worked those months in the "new" MY00 Vahuxall Tigra automatic that my wife bought to go to work until her Cinq will be done. The Tigra it's of course, a yellow one :devil:

maxinou said:

Hi,

The Cinq is over its new rear axle from a moment, so I finally put it on its wheels so I can run it out of my small garage, it gots out and was cleaned to remove all dust and winter sel some weeks ago. Now it rest again in my garage behind my two Vespa Scooter while attempt to move into a bigger garage with enough room to work on it. Still some months to wait until restoration starts.

I worked those months in the "new" MY00 Vahuxall Tigra automatic that my wife bought to go to work until her Cinq will be done. The Tigra it's of course, a yellow one :devil:

Click to expand...

Good work. Keep us up to date with the work when next started. Good luck with it. It will be worth it for your wife.