Technical Urgent! Drum brakes question

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Technical Urgent! Drum brakes question

danishfiatdriver

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Jul 27, 2018
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I have a 2001 Seicento, does the centre hub nut have to come off in order to do the brakes or can ypu access them from behind the hub assembly?

I don’t have a socket large enough or an impact driver but i’m eager to get the shoes, drums, springs, cable and wheel cylinders done tomorrow so I can have a working handbrake agai
Thanks in advance
 
The centre hub nut DOES NOT need to be removed to remove the drum.
All that holds the drum on is the tiny spike bolt or the wheel studs if you have studs instead of bolts.
 
I was assuming he meant the shoes, etc

Shoes, springs, elbow linkage bit, cylinders, etc.. none of that needs the hub nut removed.

I did read it as "do I need to remove the hub nut to service the brakes" though. People have thought that the hub nut holds the drum on, so I assumed it was that again!! :)
 
The hub does not need to be removed to change the shoes, but it is a really difficult fiddle, with large amounts of special language necessary, and perhaps some tears.
With the hub removed the whole job is so much easier. For me, very worthwhile for the cost of two hub nuts.
 
Thanks a lot. I’ll have a go at doing it without taking off the hub. There’s no cap on my hub, and the threads are pretty rusty. Don’t think i’ll get em off without breaking something, like all the other bolts done on this thing. Threads just strip despite the use off penetrating oil, gentle tapping etc.

Anyway found out the thing is rotten in the wheelwells as well so the thing is dying in 4 months time when the MOT is due..
 
Good news and bad news. Good: the hub is indented and not round.

The bad. Rhe drums are stuck onto the shoes because they’re lipped, and I don’t know how to get them out.

Any ideas?
 
Simce i’m doing the cable anyways, I was thinking of taking it off and gently tapping the linkage back with a hammer. Will this hurt anything?

Also, the linkage is grown in, which is why my brakes are sticking.

I was thinking of cleaning it out and greasing it, will copper anti seize or silicone oil do the trick?

As you can hear i’ve not done drums before, only discs and pads.

Thanks!
 
Simce i’m doing the cable anyways, I was thinking of taking it off and gently tapping the linkage back with a hammer. Will this hurt anything?

Also, the linkage is grown in, which is why my brakes are sticking.

I was thinking of cleaning it out and greasing it, will copper anti seize or silicone oil do the trick?

As you can hear i’ve not done drums before, only discs and pads.

Yes release the cable from the linkage.
You'll want to remove the linkage to properly grease it, but you need the drum off to get them out.

I used spray copper grease on mine to really get into the joint and they never stuck.
 
Right, so I got it all sortet out and now I am curios to know if I have made or mistake here or the car is just too rusted beyond repair.

The only way the drums could come on was by disconnecting the handbrake cable from the slot that it is tensioned into by the speing, so the elbow linkage could be pulled back. They move freely thoug.

But even without a handbrake cable attached, the brakes drag horribly, and the right hand side drum has turned purple!

I realise the shoes adjust by friction on a spring, and they are pressed as much inwards as possible! The left side was not so bad but the right, completely inpossible to even fit the drum
On!

It’s as if the linkage to the handbrake push the shoes top far out, or well it is! As if it is too long. But as I said, they move freely and have been vleaned with brake clean, scrubbed with a steel brush and then lubricated with copper grease.

What the effint ****e is wrong guys?
 
Have you tried levering the shoes in with a screwdriver?

Shoes are brand new, so adjuster is as well.

YES! Absolutely. And I even resorted to gently tapping them inwards with a rubber mallet out of frustration. They won't budge. It's the elbow link that's spreading them apart, the only way to compress the link and shoes are if I release the spring tenstioner on the cable link right behind the backplate.

The handbrake cable is slacked to the very edge, one turn and the bolt comes off. If the cable is mounted to the elbow link, it spreads the shoes out too far.

I am really at a loss here. I cannot see how I have mounted anything wrongly. All I know is that my new brakes are purple and ruined :cry::cry::cry:
 
In this case you also need to loosen the adjusting of the handbrake cable. Otherwise you sort of apply the handbrake. Since the old pads were worn your handbrake adjustment needed to bbe tighter in order to be able to apply the handbrake without pulling the lever through the roof

Am i making sense here?
 
If they've overheated to turn purple, shoes and probably drums are scrap.

If I remember correctly, the shoes are not all identical, there are two leading shoes and two trailing shoes. If you've put both leading on one side that may cause issues. The handbrake levers also try to fall out of position easily, despite being difficult to get into place, and if not located in the shoe cutouts properly can cause the shoes to be pushed outwards.

The adjusters need to be pushed back as far as they will go. This can be difficult, as fitting them tends to pull them outwards. The shoes also need to be centred.

The wheel cylinder pistons try to push outwards, so need restraining while the shoes are off. If they have moved outwards too far, they may have jammed, so check all four pistons will still push all the way back in.

Old drums wear with a ridge. Sometimes new shoes are slightly wider, and will rub on that ridge, dragging even when fully released. New drums are the only answer.

As requested, before you dismantle again, let's see some pics.
Ideally you need to work to diagrams. Whilst Seicento manuals are scarce, these brakes are the same on classic Panda and Cinquecento.
 
First of all I’m thankful for your help.

I’ll see if I get time to take a look at the car in the weekend, and take some pictures.

I honestly figured the shoes were identical, so if there is a leading/trailing configuration on these brakes surely this could be the issue? Can anyone confirm the shoes are leading/trailing?

The handbrake arm is securely seated in the small cutout on the shoes. I cvhecked upon assembly

I can tell you that the cylinders are not seized. They could be depressed with fingerpower.

Maybe I did the springs wrong? The thin one went on the top and the fat one went on the bottom, assembled as it was when I took the old stuff out.

Maybe there isn’t so much to clarify without taking it apart but thats a start.
 
The problem really seems to lie in the handbrake cable arms. They are spring loaded into a bracket on the backplate. If the cable is removed from those, there are no issues. Are these cable ends ajustable?
 
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