Megasquirts are good as you can do everything yourself.
Gets your knowledge of the car and the wiring up to scratch as if you got say an Emerald,you could just take it to a shop and they will wire it up and map it all for you.
I've got ms1 v3 on mine but will probably change it in the future as I want staged injection which ms1 doesn't fully support.

EMU is popular because it is quite powerful and simple at the same time and has some sport features as an extra too. Plus the reasonable price. Poles like it, but I recently have seen one up north here in Sweden (in a very nice old Abarth extreme project). I would probably use it. If I was forced to, that is, I always go for factory ECUs when possible. I would certainly not go for any MS sort, attractive as it may be, the quality of the software running in the ECU is questionable for me.

By all means follow blu's comment, your tuners will advise you. The guys from DP-Engineering in NL put their money on VEMs, for example. BTW, I highly recommend them, even though they specialise in big high profile projects on French cars, they have the best dyno in the country and one of the best (if not the best) in Europe, I have actually seen folks bringing cars to them from DE and UK. The only thing is, if you use a service like this, most of your budget is gone

Just gave them a call, but the're on holiday for another 2 weeks.

When you mention questionable software quality, do you mean the stability or usability? I have been looking at tons of positive revieuws in high end projects (mostly JDM cars) in the past hour or so.

This is an interesting read from one of the MS resellers (look for FoundSoul's comment):

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/whats-wrong-with-megasquirt/33731/page1/

pretty sure whitz runs megasquirt on his tjet 4wd cinq..

Stefan Dieters said:

Just gave them a call, but the're on holiday for another 2 weeks.

When you mention questionable software quality, do you mean the stability or usability? I have been looking at tons of positive revieuws in high end projects (mostly JDM cars) in the past hour or so.

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Make sure you say hi from me when you talk to them (Pieter most likely, yes he is on holiday, FB says so).

About MS - this is just my private opinion after a couple of attempts to see through the public MS code. When I look at it, I simply do not trust the stability and reliability of it. I have never seen MS live, I have not seen it running any engine. But I know people that do run it, and they are not 100% happy, mostly because weird things happen. I have also heard 2nd and 3rd hand stories about blown engines caused by such weird things. But do not quote me on this. On the other hand, VEMs is nothing more than a commercialised and improved MS, so it is probably a matter of taste. Also, I have stolen a couple of good ideas from the MS software for my own developments, for example the EBC control strategy. So it is worth something, I am just not sure I would want to participate as a subject in what is an experiment.

Fair enough. It will most likely be another 4 months before I dive into actually buying/mappen an ecu, so plenty of to talk to plenty of people haha.

On a other note, yesterday I've ordered 2 books regarding engine mathematics (calculating what kind of cams would fit my purpose etc) and mapping standalone ecu's, so I might learn some interesting things in there that I can take into consideration when buying an ecu.

But I also came up with another question regarding the "hardware". The mk2 centos and puntos have both a crank pos sensor and a cam pos sensor. What is the benefit of this, and might it be worth for me to look into switching over to a mk2 head just for the cam pos sensor? Because iirc both of them keep track of the angle to time ignition?

You use Cam sensor for sequential injection.

cc1 said:

You use Cam sensor for sequential injection.

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So the crank sensor is for ignition, and the cam sensor is for injection?

Stefan Dieters said:

So the crank sensor is for ignition, and the cam sensor is for injection?

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Yes. Cam sensor reads valve position for full sequential injection.

I think MS has the ability to run this but I, like Voj, am not a fan of these ECUs.
Have you looked at the EMU ECUs? Good value and features.
I run an Omex 710 but these are not cheap.

Hmm, so that means I somehow have to add a cam sensor to my p75 head. Any idea how I would accomplish this? I know the mk2 heads have a cam sensor, but I asume I cant simply swap the mk2 camshaft with the mk1 866 camshaft.

Yes, ive looked at EMU, but they are still more expensive then the ms3. Can you elaborate at your opinion about ms?

The CAM sensor is located in the CAM cover on the newer MPI engines so just fit one of these to the 75 head. You also need the complete valve timing pulleys, water pump and belt to match from the newer MPI.

Ref; MS.
I read lots about it on forums with regard to issues and setting up.
Plus, the hassle if you build it yourself, doing it to the spec you require and then testing it. (Stim kit)?
If you fit the relay expansion board things start to look messy.
(Just my opinion).

My Omex is all in one box, quality built and comes fully tested. (Built by GEM?).
I got a free custom start up MAP and technical support when things were not right. (Their error not mine).
To me, the ECU is a critical part that decides whether your engine lives or dies.
Spending many hours labour and lots of money on an engine made the decision for me.

Oh sweet! Ill grab a cam pulley and cover from one of the mk2 seicentos we have at work. Ill guess they are the same as the punto mk2 mpi heads yeah?

As for the waterpump, ill be using a 1.2 16v bottom end, so ill have to see of that will fit.

Mk2 1.1/1.2 MPI engines have many compatible components.
Just make sure all the pulleys in the system have the same pitch teeth.

cc1 said:

Mk2 1.1/1.2 MPI engines have many compatible components.
Just make sure all the pulleys in the system have the same pitch teeth.

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Right, thanks! Ill have to add that I will be using a mk2 1.2 16v bottom end, with a mk1 mpi head from a p75. So I guess that if the camshaft pulley of a mk2 will fit on the mk1 shaft, combined with the mk2 cover, I'll have that part covered (assuming the teeth count is the same, and the waterpump will fit)

Look into my turbo thread to see how I solved the cam sensor issue, but I seriously do not advise it, it was just a temporary bodge fix to get the ECU running.

But think about it twice, sequential injection is way overrated when it comes to power. On high load and revs all injectors work almost full time anyhow and when exactly they fire has little to do with anything. You will get a smoother idle and low load cruise along with cleaner emissions, but that is it. And one more sensor that needs wiring and can fail.

woj said:

But think about it twice, sequential injection is way overrated when it comes to power. On high load and revs all injectors work almost full time anyhow and when exactly they fire has little to do with anything. You will get a smoother idle and low load cruise along with cleaner emissions, but that is it. And one more sensor that needs wiring and can fail.

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Exactly
This is my semi daily car that I use for pretty much everything. Going to work (which can also be done on my mopad, hence the semi daily), grocery shopping, visitting my parents, and it will only be driving at max power on meetings and the occasional suprising of stock fast cars.

Thats why I will be taking my time to do it all good in one go, including the extra work of hooking up an extra sensor just to get better millage and less issues during my MOT (which I will orobably going to attend with my laptop, just in case haha)

I might go a bit nuts here with the project, but I read something very interesting power wise.

The new Dodge charger hellcat uses it's airco system to cool the intake air even further in full throttle mode, which makes sense considering how freaking cold a proper airco system can get. Looking at the fact that I am using a mk2 button end, which has the original mounting points, I could do the same with a DIY small loop airco system, combined with a custom heat transfer box that the air leaving the intercooler will pass trough to cool it down even better when I want to drive on high boost, and simply turning of the AC when cruising down the highway.

Has anyone done that before?

The Air-Con compressor will take more horse power from the engine to run it than you will get from the colder air supplied.
May help to stop the engine melting on 1000Hp+ monsters though? LOL

Look at how much heat a 1Hp compressor can shift at 5Deg/C on whatever gas is used these days. Do some calculations on heat transfer ratios for sizing the heat exchanger. Calculate the max air flow rate though the exchanger plus heat transfer rate etc. etc.

Save your money and spend it in the right places, like getting a decent ECU and setting it up for optimum performance with the engine configuration.
You are not building a high performance engine.
Start with a good package and then improve later.

cc1 said:

The Air-Con compressor will take more horse power from the engine to run it than you will get from the colder air supplied.
May help to stop the engine melting on 1000Hp+ monsters though? LOL

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Just like I thought, i'm going nuts :slayer: