Technical That's more like it ...........1242 now fitted

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Technical That's more like it ...........1242 now fitted

Joined
Apr 2, 2005
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209
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Location
Membury, Devon
Well I've just been for the first run with the 1242 fitted & what a difference - I have to say I'm impressed .
The car feels pretty much the same as the 1108 up to 2000/2500rpm , but after that it comes on the cam & just flies . The engine will easily hit 6000rpm now , the 1108 was definately gasping for air at that speed .

Here's the spec.....

Mk2 Punto 1242 engine fitted with a Mk1 Punto 75 head , cam & inlet manifold . The throttle body is the Punto 75 lower half (38mm) fitted with the Cinq Sport top half . The lower half has been machined to match the aperture of the top section . I've had a 15mm alloy spacer made up to fit between the inlet & TB , as the stock 75 spacer is too tall .

The MPI injectors have been removed & the holes blocked with rubber bungs & automotive silicon sealant (leaves me the option to go MPI if I choose) .
I've read on other posts that the 75MPI inlet won't work as it will puddle fuel. I can't see that as when it's fitted to the car , the bottom of the inlet manifold is angled towards the head at about 20deg and there's no flat or concave areas so there's nowhere for the fuel to puddle . It certainly works fine .

The car has Magnecor leads & seems to run better on the standard NGK plugs than the Bosch Super 4's (I personally think they're rubbish)

At the moment the car has the Cinq Sport 4-1 exhaust manifold , but on Sunday I'll be fitting the Punto 75 4-2-1 manifold & twin downpipes . A bit of cutting & welding will mate that to the rest of my Cinq system.

The air filter is the stock Cinq Sport fitted with a K&N panel filter & the front part of the box virtually cut away to nothing . I'm waiting for the induction kit to be delivered from Yanninya - hopefully that will give me a bit more power.

You may be interested to hear of my slightly unusual way that I fitted the engine .

What I did was remove the head on the old engine , support the engine with a hoist and then remove the left engine mount (left as you look at the engine).
Then lowering the engine on the hoist , this allowed the engine to tilt until the top of the block was clear of the front chassis leg & allowed the engine to be removed from the gearbox. (this won't work with the head in place) I then fitted the new engine in the same way , and fitted the head once the engine was bolted in place .(the head was already off my new engine )

That saved loads of time & work as I didn't need to disturb the other 2 engine mounts , the driveshafts and the gear linkage .

Hope that helps others planning a similar swap.

John
 
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Oh I'm jealous John! Sounds great!

Mines never liked the Super 4 plugs, 30 miles and I swapped them for standard ones.

Cool idea with the engine swap, would consider that myself, as the driveshafts scare me.

Liam
 
Nice work there mate. Thanks for sharing your experience :)

Got some pics at all? Or is that just pushin my luck?!lol
 
How did you angle the intake since it sits horizontal on the stock mounts?:confused:

The fuel usually puddles when idling and facing uphill, at least to me it did but my intake may be different:confused:
 
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nice one

didn't you have to butcher the bulkhead to get the manifold to fit?

btw removing the driveshafts is easy, with wheels off just unbolt the dampers and swing the complete lower arm/hub assembly away with driveshats from the gearbox, protect the joints with a plastic bag.

good idea to replace the mounts as a matter of course.

i recently did a customer car with exactly the same set up you have described.

when you are ready to go MPI I can sort you out with an OMEX system - parts approx £400 plus £35 per hour fitting and £100 per hour dyno set up.
with uprated injectors, flowed head with dialed in fast road cam and lightened fly you are looking at a totally reliable 120 bhp.
 
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Can i be really nosey and ask how much a job like this costs? im new to Fiats but would love a bit more poke out of my Sei...Thanks :D
 
RobW said:
when you are ready to go MPI I can sort you out with an OMEX system - parts approx £400 plus £35 per hour fitting and £100 per hour dyno set up.
with uprated injectors, flowed head with dialed in fast road cam and lightened fly you are looking at a totally reliable 120 bhp.

:eek:

I think my car will be making it's way down to you next year Rob :D
 
RobW said:
with uprated injectors, flowed head with dialed in fast road cam and lightened fly you are looking at a totally reliable 120 bhp.

Not possible with a fast road cam :rolleyes:

I'm running a fast road2 cam on my 1242 with costom inlet and it beats a similar 1242 MPi setup with 9 bhp.

I have 95 bhp on the fast road2 cam from C&B and i'm positive you can't reach 120 bhp on a fast road cam ;)
 
RobW said:
nice one

didn't you have to butcher the bulkhead to get the manifold to fit?

btw removing the driveshafts is easy, with wheels off just unbolt the dampers and swing the complete lower arm/hub assembly away with driveshats from the gearbox, protect the joints with a plastic bag.

good idea to replace the mounts as a matter of course.

i recently did a customer car with exactly the same set up you have described.

when you are ready to go MPI I can sort you out with an OMEX system - parts approx £400 plus £35 per hour fitting and £100 per hour dyno set up.
with uprated injectors, flowed head with dialed in fast road cam and lightened fly you are looking at a totally reliable 120 bhp.

You sure about those specs? Look here http://www.clubfirepower.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3&start=0
 
OK guys , here's some pics .

I did have to "butcher" the bulkhead - but only really the plastic part along the lower edge - you can hardly tell with everything in place .
The pics show the angled lower part of the manifold - stock Punto 75.

I was going to seperate the water outlet from the manifold to allow the manifold to run cooler , but I thought i'd leave it connected for the moment as the heat will help atomise the fuel - just in case there is/was a manifold problem .

I forgot to mention earlier the car has a Mccrich chip .

One "problem" the car has is that it wants to idle at about 500rpm & occasionally stalls . I'm going to give the chip some time to learn the settings which may sort it . If not , I'll tweak the TB throttle stop a bit.

Tomorrow I'll be fitting the Punto 75 4-2-1 exhaust , so i'll let you know if that makes any difference & Yanninya has posted the induction kit , so watch this space .

John
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mase said:
u dont even think it is possible with stage 2 head work and a custom mapped chip?

Well, thats exactly what I got on my Cento ;) - so my anwser is: no.
I got the fast road2 cam (280 degrees), a costom inlet manifold and costom exhaust - many other things have also bin done to my engine before 95 hp was possible without fitting a turbo or NOS.

You will need NOS to get 120 Hp from a 1242cc 8v unless you fit a corsa cam or a turbo. If you do it with the corsa cam you will have to move the limiter up cause the Corsa cam peak at high revs.

Clik one of the links in my signature to se my rolling road printout (y)
 
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Tricker... said:
Not possible with a fast road cam :rolleyes:

I'm running a fast road2 cam on my 1242 with costom inlet and it beats a similar 1242 MPi setup with 9 bhp.

I have 95 bhp on the fast road2 cam from C&B and i'm positive you can't reach 120 bhp on a fast road cam ;)

sorry not going to argue the point but it has been done - period
 
smokeme said:


?? what does that thread have to add to this discussion

I personally know Richard at OMEX and Peter H and have ben playing with Cinqs for 6 years.
I have a 105 bhp 1242 8v nitrous cinq which incidentally has a completely standard engine apart from induction and exhaust - for reliability
it isn't even 'chipped' yet (running punto ecu)

sometimes it's not what you know it's who you know and i have no reason to disbelieve what these guys tell me
 
Hey RobW

Sorry for arguing.

I'm having a hard time believing what you write... I simply can't understand how you did 120 bhp on a 1242 8v engine with an OMEX system only by changing to MPI, flowed head, fast road cam and lightened flywheel.

I'm very interested in getting some info about this job. I'm not the expert here but I'm willing to learn about others experience with the 1242 FIRE engine.

If you please could supply me with some info about this flowed MPI head and what cam you use to get 120 bhp.

It's not that I don't want to believe you, but it sound quite amazing.

Please write me something by mail: [email protected]


Cheers

/Tricker
 
RobW said:
?? what does that thread have to add to this discussion

I personally know Richard at OMEX and Peter H and have ben playing with Cinqs for 6 years.
I have a 105 bhp 1242 8v nitrous cinq which incidentally has a completely standard engine apart from induction and exhaust - for reliability
it isn't even 'chipped' yet (running punto ecu)

sometimes it's not what you know it's who you know and i have no reason to disbelieve what these guys tell me

A flowed head (professional and well done) and a fast road cam won't get you more then 20hp at the crank and that's being optimistic(y)

The stock ecu is limited fuel wise to around 100hp before the injectors reach full duty cycle (this is why i had to upgrade mine!!) plus the fact that you say yours is on stock maps simply means you only have 105hp when the NOS is on (n) .

I don't believe anyone regarding engine limits or power figures until i see the facts (ie time slips/dyno sheets etc). Basically a fast road cam is not designed to attain high power figures and if you have the specs on the cam we can even do the math;), a race cam on the other hand is designed for peak power sacrificing low end torque(y)
 
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Hi Smokeme

What did you use to upgrade your standard injector?
Did you replace it or fit an extra one? fuel pump?

Cheers


RobW said:
speak to Richard at OMEX and get it from the horses mouth then
You brought this on... - why don't you finish it up and tell us what you did to make 120 bhp on a MPI?

You said:
when you are ready to go MPI I can sort you out with an OMEX system - parts approx £400 plus £35 per hour fitting and £100 per hour dyno set up.
with uprated injectors, flowed head with dialed in fast road cam and lightened fly you are looking at a totally reliable 120 bhp.


If you can prove this, well, then I think you have allot of new costumers in very short time :)

Do you have an e-mail address to this Richard?
 
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Tricker... said:
Hi Smokeme

What did you use to upgrade your standard injector?
Did you replace it or fit an extra one? fuel pump?

Cheers



You brought this on... - why don't you finish it up and tell us what you did to make 120 bhp on a MPI?

You said:
when you are ready to go MPI I can sort you out with an OMEX system - parts approx £400 plus £35 per hour fitting and £100 per hour dyno set up.
with uprated injectors, flowed head with dialed in fast road cam and lightened fly you are looking at a totally reliable 120 bhp.


If you can prove this, well, then I think you have allot of new costumers in very short time :)

Do you have an e-mail address to this Richard?

I'm using 300cc bosh injectors replacing the stock ones, The fuel pump is a walbro high flow but it may be altered. I didn't realize it wasn't listed on my site:eek:

http://smokeme.coconia.net/1242cc_fire_mpi.htm

The engine has not been started yet since i've been having trouble getting payment to mad4it in order to get the stock ecu (an employee is being charged with theft, long story)

I agree with your statement:

You said:
when you are ready to go MPI I can sort you out with an OMEX system - parts approx £400 plus £35 per hour fitting and £100 per hour dyno set up.
with uprated injectors, flowed head with dialed in fast road cam and lightened fly you are looking at a totally reliable 120 bhp.


If you can prove this, well, then I think you have allot of new costumers in very short time :)
--------

This would make turbo conversions a joke since it attains little over this in stock configurations;)


Shouldn't we be getting back on topic now:hm:
 
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So, are there any more news or what ? :confused:

I am really interested in this topic, but think 120hp from a 1242cc 8v SPI NA is not possible, I would like it to be though... :rolleyes:

It would be awsome ! (y)

Cheers
 
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