Hey,

I am well aware of all the Induction Kit posts on this Forum but none really seem to compare the Advantages and Disadvantages off the main kits and as this is possibly the first upgrade most people do to their cars it its well worth knowing what is actually the best...!

Ok most people just look through there local car magazines and see Green, K&N and some other form of mass produced kit which by any means are not rubbish but they are certainly not the best to spend your money on.

GSR Motorsport offer there F1i and F11i Induction kits for SPi and MPi Seicento which are quite pricy but 95% of people who fit these kits are very happy with sound, torque and power increases so I guess you could say this is the best kit to get... Wrong! The next mod you should consider after an Induction kit is maybe changing the Throttle body as this can increase power and torque quite substantially so why not use the GSR with a 32mm Punto TB or a 40mm Tricker TB well the GSR uses a 30mm Cap so this would make the 40mm Tb useless as only 30mm worth of air can pass into the Tb at any given moment so this kind of means your stuck with your very expensive GSR kit as you have just spend £130 or £200+ and cant really just stop using it and also stuck with your 30mm Tb.

So what are the options... Well you could buy a K&N or Green as i mentioned before mass produced Induction kit's and they are not brilliant, so whats next well I have established now and hope you have worked out that you need an open breather induction kit but at better quality than the mass produced kit, well what am I talking about...


ITG!



I saw these about 8 months ago on the UAD 600m Seicento's and thought they looked really cool, and found out they where paid for by TBSei (Andy) to be put into development with the UAD conversion and it turns out to be a really nice kit... Sadly Andy cant get hold of these anymore and UAD out of business I decided to do some research about 4 months ago into getting one of these made up for my Seicento and decided to contact the ITG parts manager and he was able to provide me with this information...

Sorry for the delay responding to your enquiry, I’m still trying to catch up from when I was on holiday a couple of weeks ago.

We used to put together an induction kit for UAD Motorsport for these cars a couple of years ago, but since they went out of business it is not something we have made or stocked parts for. The kit consisted of a modified JC60/99 air filter, a 1m length of 102mm diameter cold air ducting, a 19mm oil breather filter and a 40mm long piece of 102mm i.d. silicon hose to connect the filter to the throttle body.

Although this kit is no longer available, we can still make up the filter and supply the ducting and breather filter but cannot supply the silicone hose (we would have to buy in a couple of full lengths which makes no sense for us when only supplying a 40mm length). The filter is available to special order and will cost £55.00 + vat, the ducting will cost £25.00 + vat and the BF-19 breather filters are available for £15.99 + vat.

If you are interested in buying any of these components I would like to recommend contacting Merlin Mailorder on 01249 782101 who are used to ordering specials from us and may be able to help you with the silicon hose as well.

I hope this information is of help to you and if I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me again.

Best regards,

Andy Jackson

Parts Manager


Induction Technology Group


Tel : +44(0)24 76305 386 / Fax : +44(0)24 76307 999


They are not able to provide the silicone hose but, for the SPi Seicento available from Demon tweeks you can buy a Samco Sport Coupling Hose with a 102mm Bore and 76mm Long which would provide more torque over the original cut down 44mm size but if you have a strut brace it will need cutting down... the hose is £9.01 so its not bank breaking,

Price Breakdown:

Modified JC60/99 air filter = £55 + 17.5% = £64.62
102mm Ducting = £25 + 17.5% = £29.37
BF-19 Breather Filter = £15.99 + 17.5% = £18.78
Samco Sport Coupling Hose 102mm Bore = £9.01
Hose Joiners are a few quid

Total = £121.78

Same price as a GSR and what I know of as good as in all ways accept it has no complications of the GSR such as a 40mm Tricker will run perfectly with the ITG

Well upto you guys but my money is on one of these!

nice breakdown,also there are silicone hoses on ebay you could use to cut some costs

EvilJaxx said:

Hey,

I am well aware of all the Induction Kit posts on this Forum but none really seem to compare the Advantages and Disadvantages off the main kits and as this is possibly the first upgrade most people do to their cars it its well worth knowing what is actually the best...!

Ok most people just look through there local car magazines and see Green, K&N and some other form of mass produced kit which by any means are not rubbish but they are certainly not the best to spend your money on.

GSR Motorsport offer there F1i and F11i Induction kits for SPi and MPi Seicento which are quite pricy but 95% of people who fit these kits are very happy with sound, torque and power increases so I guess you could say this is the best kit to get... Wrong!

Click to expand...

You mean wrong in your opinion.

EvilJaxx said:

The next mod you should consider after an Induction kit is maybe changing the Throttle body as this can increase power and torque quite substantially so why not use the GSR with a 32mm Punto TB or a 40mm Tricker TB well the GSR uses a 30mm Cap so this would make the 40mm Tb useless as only 30mm worth of air can pass into the Tb at any given moment so this kind of means your stuck with your very expensive GSR kit as you have just spend £130 or £200+ and cant really just stop using it and also stuck with your 30mm Tb.

Click to expand...

We've been through this several times on here. The 899cc cap on the GSR kit has a 40mm inlet, so it's not going to be restrictive. A 40mm opening will flow more air than a 40m mhole with a butterfly and shaft across it. I haven't personally tried any other kits with a 40mm tb, but your quote here is misleading.

EvilJaxx said:

So what are the options... Well you could buy a K&N or Green as i mentioned before mass produced Induction kit's and they are not brilliant, so whats next well I have established now and hope you have worked out that you need an open breather induction kit but at better quality than the mass produced kit, well what am I talking about...


ITG!

I saw these about 8 months ago on the UAD 600m Seicento's and thought they looked really cool, and found out they where paid for by TBSei (Andy) to be put into development with the UAD conversion and it turns out to be a really nice kit... Sadly Andy cant get hold of these anymore and UAD out of business I decided to do some research about 4 months ago into getting one of these made up for my Seicento and decided to contact the ITG parts manager and he was able to provide me with this information...

Sorry for the delay responding to your enquiry, I’m still trying to catch up from when I was on holiday a couple of weeks ago.

We used to put together an induction kit for UAD Motorsport for these cars a couple of years ago, but since they went out of business it is not something we have made or stocked parts for. The kit consisted of a modified JC60/99 air filter, a 1m length of 102mm diameter cold air ducting, a 19mm oil breather filter and a 40mm long piece of 102mm i.d. silicon hose to connect the filter to the throttle body.

Although this kit is no longer available, we can still make up the filter and supply the ducting and breather filter but cannot supply the silicone hose (we would have to buy in a couple of full lengths which makes no sense for us when only supplying a 40mm length). The filter is available to special order and will cost £55.00 + vat, the ducting will cost £25.00 + vat and the BF-19 breather filters are available for £15.99 + vat.

If you are interested in buying any of these components I would like to recommend contacting Merlin Mailorder on 01249 782101 who are used to ordering specials from us and may be able to help you with the silicon hose as well.

I hope this information is of help to you and if I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me again.

Best regards,

Andy Jackson

Parts Manager


Induction Technology Group


Tel : +44(0)24 76305 386 / Fax : +44(0)24 76307 999


They are not able to provide the silicone hose but, for the SPi Seicento available from Demon tweeks you can buy a Samco Sport Coupling Hose with a 102mm Bore and 76mm Long which would provide more torque over the original cut down 44mm size but if you have a strut brace it will need cutting down... the hose is £9.01 so its not bank breaking,

Price Breakdown:

Modified JC60/99 air filter = £55 + 17.5% = £64.62
102mm Ducting = £25 + 17.5% = £29.37
BF-19 Breather Filter = £15.99 + 17.5% = £18.78
Samco Sport Coupling Hose 102mm Bore = £9.01
Hose Joiners are a few quid

Total = £121.78

Same price as a GSR and what I know of as good as in all ways accept it has no complications of the GSR such as a 40mm Tricker will run perfectly with the ITG

Well upto you guys but my money is on one of these!

Click to expand...

Looks very nice, but doesn't flow well if the foam is sitting hard against the underside of the bonnet as was seen on some UAD showcars. Kit is too high to fit in properly.
Offers no advantage over a K&N - all it is is a foam filter mounted on top of the throttle body with a cold air ducted feed. The funneling effect inside the filter is enormous compared to the actual intake on the throttle body and is largely ineffective.

If you stick a breather filter on the cam cover as in that picture, it'll pour oil down the back of the engine - as many found out.

I'm not wanting to put you down, it's through people like yourself researching stuff like this that breakthroughs and developments are made. I do feel you've been mislead though.

The 899cc cap on the GSR kit has a 40mm inlet, so it's not going to be restrictive

Click to expand...

Tricker told me that the GSR will not work with his 40mm Tb as well as an open top breather Induction Kit.....

Looks very nice, but doesn't flow well if the foam is sitting hard against the underside of the bonnet as was seen on some UAD showcars.

Click to expand...

That is because the Samco Sport or SFS Coupling Hoses which are standard as 102 Bore and 76mm long, they need to be cut down to 44mm, but Andy (TBSei) told me some time back on my-sei that left at 76mm It will offer more Torque and my question was wont it go right up into the bonnet and no it wont, its a good half/inch off the top of the bonnet on the 1108 engine and if removing the form lining of the top of the bonnet it offers more room! And when cut down to 44mm it fits fine as the ITG is not a massive induction kit its not as bulky as the K&N or Green etc..

In my opinion I hate to copy everyone else and have the same as everyone hense the reason I always question what seems to be the best and then offer a different opinion i.e. N/A vs Turbo so on... But in this case the ITG has had more time and money put into the construction of it over the GSR, If I remember right Andy lent the £50 or a small two digit figure to someone (was it peter??) to have the production of the GSR started... and lets be honest its not a rocket sciense Induction kit, but the Filter does look quality although!

Forgot to say the ITG breather now sits up on a silicone pipe, that picture is old I just used it as an example!



there we go!

That's great, it's always good to see different ideas.

I'd question the amount of development in the ITG kit, I'd suggest the time investment is little different to K&N, Green or any other makers. The filter is still little different in principal and operation to a K&N and the issue of the drawing in of hot air will be no different.

I'd be interested to see independant power plots from an engine with a GSR, K&N and ITG induction kits fitted.

Your quote about the longer connecting pipe allowing more torque - this is one of the principles behind mounting your air filter away from the back of the engine on a tapered intake tube.

Ah ITG... i have had mind for 2yrs! its working well, and i have no complaints..

I'd be interested to see independant power plots from an engine with a GSR, K&N and ITG induction kits fitted.

Click to expand...

That would be an intresting Test, I have a K&N and will have the ITG soon so anyone with a GSR and wouldnt mind using there car as a test platform we might be able to get some results from a number of Induction kits

Id still like to point out that the 600m (Not everyone fav subject) used a 102mm Ducting pipe to the induction kit which is MASSIVE
and this brought air directly from the front of the car and it actaully went right upto the induction kit so surly this would draw as much cold air in as the GSR if not more?

think the difference in cold air is the itg(and most others)draw air from there full diameter of the filter on top of the engine.thus in your pic above about 60% of the filter can draw hot air whereas the GSR is drawing cold air straihjt to the throttle body

Indeed, but my other question was not either proven right or wrong from above, Tricker told me the GSR would not work well with his 40mm Tb so that kind of means GSR gives around 5 BHP on a 1108 and with 30mm it stays at 5 BHP increases or there abouts and even with the 40mm Tb it would still only be 5 BHP due to the restrictive cap but with the ITG gives say 4 BHP on a 1108 and with the 40mm it moves to around 13 BHP or there abouts increases as 40mm with ITG is far better than GSR on its own or GSR with 40mm so which do you pick....?

I would go with ITG

I know Fixit said before the Cap is 40mm but surely Tricker wouldnt of made a mistake in PMing me and telling me with an open breathing Induction kit (Not GSR) his 40mm Tb works at its best....

Err well I would have to disagree with you there! I know we all have different opinions, but I would love to put my gsr f1 kit on my sei mpi next to an itg/kandn and green! Coz i kow what the result would be, I had the kandn with a huge cold air feed, (Larger then uad) and on top of this I have been in a car equiped with the itg foam filter, trust me the GSR is far superior, mainly in terms of torque! The design of the GSR allows for the air speed going into the throttle body to be accelerated up to the silicon hosing hence it actually makes a failry substantial difference! Any induction cone which sits on top of the throttle body is not speeding up the air speed, just potentially allowing more flow the kandn i ran for 2 years was all very well but next to the gsr its a bit of a laugh really! And I have seen a GSR fitted on an enlarged throttle body although admittedly never on a tricker throttle body! I'm sure you could get an adaptor! I don't love GSR I am just giving a truthful opinion I think you are wasting money with the ITG idea coz it is little superior to the kandn, UAD reckoned 5.6hp for the kit which was a joke on its own, because when my friend Oli fitted his on his car a couple of years ago it was only running 64 hp and that was with a supersprint manifold and system and I can personally say I know where all the power came from seeing as I also own the s/sprint manifold and love it to peices!!

Manifolds only give a small percent increase in BHP 3 - 4 at max! This was tested on my Sei with the standard manifold and a performance manifold and it only showed increases of 3 - 4.

As for the system thats a joke I am afraid a full stainless system from Janspeed or Super Sprint will give 1 - 2 BHP Max, the front section of the exhuast gives the main power middle and backbox give next to nothing.

Thats a total of about 6 and a minimum of about 4 over the standard 54 BHP is either 60 BHP or 58 BHP so the extra 4 or 6 BHP was coming from the ITG

Also the ITg is not build the same as the K&N the K&N is just fully open if you look at the design on the inside its basically just a netting around a fully open TB sucking in hot air and everything a completly crap design, but the ITG is build on a trumpet design....

Some valid arguments there on both sides . What we need is a proper rolling road "shootout" to show what's good & what's better .
As I'm about to upgrade to a 1242 I'd like to be certain that a GSR will/won't work with a Tricker TB + what gives the best BHP per £ spent
John

A Punto 1242 with GSR would be better than the 1242 with ITG as the points above pointed out that the GSR is more effective when used on its own, but the ITG with the 40mm Tb is better than the GSR with 40mm Tb as Tricker told me in his PM not to use a GSR kit but use an open breather with his 40mm so I am just going on what he said....

Personally Id go for the ITG with a 1242 and 40mm Tb as its the best open breather on the market and would hazard a guess in saying 2nd best behind the GSR kit, as I said before as well the ITG is built on a trumpet shape covered in foam so its not the same as the K&N in terms of design.

Must also point out if you want to order the ITg its not a kit I am afraid you need to order all the parts seperate as listed in my first post you need to ring ITG and order all parts seperatly and also the silicone coupling hose at 102mm Bore and 76mm long (needs cutting down to 44mm long) can be ordered from Demon tweeks for £9.01 and that is Samco Sport.

I think that the ITG kit would work very well if you fitted a Reanult 19 16V vent above it, just my wee tupence worth.

Aaron.

EvilJaxx said:

Manifolds only give a small percent increase in BHP 3 - 4 at max! This was tested on my Sei with the standard manifold and a performance manifold and it only showed increases of 3 - 4.

As for the system thats a joke I am afraid a full stainless system from Janspeed or Super Sprint will give 1 - 2 BHP Max, the front section of the exhuast gives the main power middle and backbox give next to nothing.

Thats a total of about 6 and a minimum of about 4 over the standard 54 BHP is either 60 BHP or 58 BHP so the extra 4 or 6 BHP was coming from the ITG

Also the ITg is not build the same as the K&N the K&N is just fully open if you look at the design on the inside its basically just a netting around a fully open TB sucking in hot air and everything a completly crap design, but the ITG is build on a trumpet design....

Click to expand...

I think you're using quotes from the filter makers and resellers maybe? If you look at Supersprint's website, they claim a full exhaust system is worth more than 1-2bhp. I'm not saying either of them are lying, but sometimes the reality isn't what you're promised. The funneling design of the ITG filter isn't going to be of much use if it's central - got any pics of the underside of an ITG? - if you look at a throttle body the intake and butterfly is well off to one side, and funneled on it's own out to a good size.

A full exhaust system is worth much more than 1-2 bhp. The main restriction is in the front pipe? The cat will offer some restriction, so if this is removed (although you'll fail an MOT) you will gain. The middle section - no gains - agreed. The back section - no gains? - have to disagree. Few OEM back boxes are straight through design and offer resistance to the exhaust flow, so a free flow one will allow you more power. A bad system - i.e. one that's massively oversized and doesn't allow a decent gas speed - will be of little to no use, or may even lose power. The supersprint has small primaries and not a massive bore - not so good for chav bling at the local car park, but quite effective for producing power.

What also needs to be taken into account is the state of tune and other modifications to an engine.

Now call me old-fashioned , but I'd rather trade a couple of BHP for a quieter intake - looks to me like the GSR stands a better chance of being quieter .
I like a good sounding car , but exhaust droning and intake sucking can be very tiring for long journeys .
John

GSR all the way i'm afraid, the length on the induction gives an increased torque, yes the ITG will probably give a better peak power but off the race track lb ft is what your after. I have heard a lot of stories from friends that the tricker throttle body has been bored beyond its limits and is very weak. Sadly i dont drive a cinq or a sei so i cant comment on the reliabilty of either GSR or Tricker.

The piping that they have used in the picture with the ITG is near on useless, unless its totally smooth on the inside its just turbulance.

I'm not sure how much the GSR took to develop, possibly the £50 you are refering to could be the tool materals. I personnaly think the ITG is from the parts bin, its very square cut and i'd like to see the insides, anyone have a cross section?

End of the day we need to get a couple of cars together and spend a few hours on an R/R and maybe a 1/4 strip.

The ITG was developed over a few days and they used Andys (TBSei) 600m to develope a kit that best suited the Seicento, I think it looks excellent and saying ITG is from the parts bin, well no offense to the GSR but they are using 899cc caps now that really is taking stuff from a FIAT parts bin

I also am curious alot of GSR owners say they lose top end when the GSR is fitted, if this is such an excellent induction kit why would you lose top end, unless its only effective at lower speeds or middle range revs...

Bit confused about the comment re: tricker's TB strength, I don't think Aaron (j333evo) has had any problems despite using one on a turbo...