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Old 13-04-2012   #1
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binding rear brake MOT failure please

As none of the other brake binding threads mentioned the rear brakes i've started a new thread about my rear brake binding on, could it be because i haven't driven the car for about a month or two and so as the handbrake has been on for months which operates the rear brakes that the rear shoes have surface rusted themselves to the drum, so will a long trip sort it, i did a long trip and it squeaked a lot on braking then it got less the more i drove, with no squeaks at all after about 40 miles. Also i've been having to pull the handbrake up to just within the MOT level and use both hands to pull it up in order to stop the car wanting to roll back on a hill, does that help what the problem with the binding rear brakes, its only one side of the rear brakes(offside drivers), and as i think its the handbrake triggering the rear brake shoes(i imagine they're shoes) then the advice about pistons and calipers hasn't helped me so can someone help please, i mainly want to know if there's a quick fix as i haven't facilities to do any mechanical work on the scale opening the drum would need, i just need to know if there's a quick fix like reversing a bit with the handbrake on or just driving it to wear surface rust off or driving it to get the leading/trailing edge lined up or something, just a quick solution like that to last long enough to get through this MOT re-test i need to go back to as it failed on this rear brake binding the only failure and i've only a day of old MOT cover so haven't time for a leasurely inspection overhaul, i just want to have a MOT certificate so i can carry on parking it on the street as i haven't got a drive, once i get a nice MOT pass then i can get someone to fix it fully. So has anyone got any short-term simple solutions that don't involve taking anything apart. Would a well aimed knock with a hammer via a block of wood on the offending rear wheel(its not a fancy alloy wheel) be worth a try? or just carry on doing a 40 mile trip then straight to the re-test with everything up to operating temperature? I liked the cleverness on the flexible hoses acting like non-return valves but in my case the squeaking gets less and less and after 40 miles no squeak at all, does that point to rust being worn off like i think, because if it was a non-return problem then no amount of driving would reduce the unwanted affect as it would always act like a non-return valve, making the thought of the short-term answer to simply do a 40mile trip right before the re-test be plausible? If i don't reply quick its because i'm out driving off the shreik(it definately only comes from the rear, i have the windows open and listen to it) but i'll lookforward to reading all your replies when i get back. p.s I replaced a front headlight unit with a second-hand one and with no adjusting it passed the MOT(but failed for this binding), so i hope that headlight news helps someone who also had some clumsy pleb swing a fence post around in b&q car park into my headlight and you don't see why you should pay 4 times more for a brand new one when it wasn't your fault, as being second hand the headlight had already been on a car and presumebaly MOT'd so the adjusting being internal to the unit would be ok for mine, reason this headlight was a triumph was the adjuster was rusted and solid, so if it needed fine tuning it wouldn't have been easy, so don't worry if the adjuster looks stuckfast as like i found out it will already be within a a MOT approved level. Back to my original worry, can people let me know your thoughts on my binding rear brake MOT failure please.
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Old 13-04-2012   #2
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Re: binding rear brake MOT failure please

Hand brake return springs most likely. As the pads wear down on the hand brake the springs are stretched more. With new pads on they loose their ability to pull the pad off the drum. You need to replace whats called 'handbrake fitting kit' on the rear drum brakes. That will include new springs and adjusters.
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Old 13-04-2012   #3
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Re: binding rear brake MOT failure please

I think you'll have to pull the drum apart. Can't think of any quick cure.

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Old 13-04-2012   #4
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Re: binding rear brake MOT failure please

As for the hand brake not working until pulled high it either needs adjusting or one of the cables has stretched in which case BOTH cables will need to be changed! However have a look just behind the back wheel where the hand brake cable comes down the brace for the wheel from the fuel tank clips. If the cable in loose and floppy then a retaining clip has snapped making the cable flex as you pull the handle. This would cause your symptoms. Highly recommend you get to a good brake garage (tyre dealers usually but not Kwakfit) and get them to have a good look at the hand brake system. Its always worth noting that when you have new brake drum pads fitted for the hand brake always ask them to change the fitting kit too. Very cheap (20 for both sides on mine) and nice new springs and adjusters.
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Old 13-04-2012   #5
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Re: binding rear brake MOT failure please

There are no adjusters apart from the ones in the shoes themselves (and the one under the car). On the Seis the handbrake cable (and there is only one handbrake cable) tends to seize, as do the actuator elbows and even the slave cylinder.

The good bit is that everything is cheap. The bad bit, that you'll have to get youir hands dirty. If the car is taxed it's safe enough to leave it outside the house.
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Old 13-04-2012   #6
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Re: binding rear brake MOT failure please

Ah there will be two hand brake cables! May only be one at the handle but that will go to a joining bar further back which each of the rear wheel cables goes to (imagine an upside down Y as its layout with the single end being the hand brake handle), exactly the same design used on trailers and caravans. Each drum will have a brake or it would not be sufficient enough to stop the car if the foot brake fails and would brake to one side causing the car to spin.
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Old 13-04-2012   #7
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Re: binding rear brake MOT failure please

DC - don't argue with fingers Sei's have 1 cable which is V-shaped underneath the car, each end connects to the 2 drums while the centre of the cable attaches to the bottom of the handle.
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Old 13-04-2012   #8
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Re: binding rear brake MOT failure please

Quote Originally Posted by Dcthebear View Post
Ah there will be two hand brake cables! May only be one at the handle but that will go to a joining bar further back which each of the rear wheel cables goes to (imagine an upside down Y as its layout with the single end being the hand brake handle), exactly the same design used on trailers and caravans. Each drum will have a brake or it would not be sufficient enough to stop the car if the foot brake fails and would brake to one side causing the car to spin.
Do appreciate your advice, but it doesn't seem to have a cento?

The common problem is the rusty actuator that need freeing up. It be obvious once you remove the shoe at the rear.

All cento have 1 cable only, just the mechanics of it is slightly different.
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Old 13-04-2012   #9
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Re: binding rear brake MOT failure please

In fairness, the Cento set up is both old fashioned and rare. It relies -- for equilibrium both sides -- on a tiny pulley (in the Cinq) or an even simpler semi circular cable runner (in the Sei). Hence, the need for 2 cables and an "equaliser" is cheerfully by-passed by the production engineers and bean counters.
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Old 13-04-2012   #10
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Re: binding rear brake MOT failure please

Quote Originally Posted by fingers99 View Post
In fairness, the Cento set up is both old fashioned and rare. It relies -- for equilibrium both sides -- on a tiny pulley (in the Cinq) or an even simpler semi circular cable runner (in the Sei). Hence, the need for 2 cables and an "equaliser" is cheerfully by-passed by the production engineers and bean counters.
True, but on a day to day car is fine, it holds the car.
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Old 13-04-2012   #11
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Re: binding rear brake MOT failure please

Yep. It's probably not that different from run of the mill stuff 40 or 50 years ago. And, then, the idea of a handbrake as an "emergency" brake is very much an anglo-saxon fetish.
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Old 13-04-2012   #12
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Re: binding rear brake MOT failure please

I see what you mean by the one cable but in operation your still working two and one side can still stretch from where it joins the handle. It comes down to safety in the end as its your last resort if your foot brake fails. Personally i'd change the lot not just one part. Its not expensive and it would certainly pass the MOT.
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Old 13-04-2012   #13
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Re: binding rear brake MOT failure please

Quite the reverse -- with two cable rear brakes, you're effectively dealing with one (joined by the equalising peice). .
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Old 13-04-2012   #14
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Re: binding rear brake MOT failure please

In the last few years I've been through 3 handbrake cables, 2 backplates, 3 slave cylinders and 2 lots of fitting kits.

Part of the problem is the car being left standing for long periods when it went away for yet more adjustments and modifications but the big problem (on mine) is the cable on one side keeps falling onto the exhaust when the loop that holds it up pops off its clip. The end result is the cable melts and the handbrake becomes extremely marginal.

A little bit of careful lubrication on the levers that poke through the backplates is generally enough otherwise - once you get over the hideous rot that destroys the backplates (after ten years I wasn't really surprised).

I had my car MOT'd last week and this was (in the end) the only point of failure despite all sorts of other irregularities. All it needed was another cable fitting and it just sailed through. In fact it is possibly the best it has ever been now.
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Old 14-04-2012   #15
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Re: binding rear brake MOT failure please

Thanks for all the info, just to let you know its ok now, they had a look and it was an elbow arm bit that needed cleaning-up and oiling and it was ok then. they didn't fit any new bits, and didn't charge me anything for doing it. And then they re-tested it and it passed its MOT. a Happy Ending. Kwik fit did it, some branches are ok. I'd better go and do some housework now. Till next time then.
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