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Old 19-07-2011   #1
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Talking Full Hydraulic Brake bias bar pedalbox

Hey guys!

I like to remove the vacuum servo/booster and build in this beautiful pedal-box with a bias bar :

I still need to calculate what the actual required pedal force is going to be (cylinder size, pedal length, etc.), to know if it's even realistic. But need to overcome the worst downside first, which is the need for a hydraulic clutch! But here is the situation:

My clutch has recently failed and I like to uprate it into a stronger one, because of the lovely horses from my whooshy turbo! The cable is getting weaker and weaker (known issue) and gearbox is not in it's glory days, so to speak

So, I had a good 3 day search over the forum, and I was wondering if it's possible to fit a stilo 1.4 16V 6sp. gearbox to the standard 1108 SPI (under)block? The reason I came to this solution is the fact that with it's flywheel included it's the clutch upgrade I wanted and it has a hydraulic clutch system on it

So is this a wonderfull , or more a solution?
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Last edited by lxfusion; 19-07-2011 at 22:46.
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Old 19-07-2011   #2
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Re: Full Hydraulic Brake bias bar pedalbox

Its much easier to do on your cars than ours this side of the channel.

We used a Ford clutch pedal with Ford cable and a single Willwood twin master cylinder brake pedal.

Cheers

D
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Old 19-07-2011   #3
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Re: Full Hydraulic Brake bias bar pedalbox

The manufacturers webshop is finally back online again..., took a look and:

Cable clutch version! Yess
I'm still interested if the 6speed conversion is possible though!
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Old 20-07-2011   #4
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Re: Full Hydraulic Brake bias bar pedalbox

punto clutch is hydraulic so use a punto sporting 6 speed gearbox (has been done and is the same box as stilo i believe) hydraulic clutch will be a lot better than the cable. have you had a look at wilwood brakeing systems on the rally design website ?
http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/index.php?cPath=562

i have used there stuff before and its pretty good and cheap compaired to others.

good luck

paul
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Last edited by higgsey; 20-07-2011 at 17:02.
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Old 20-07-2011   #5
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Re: Full Hydraulic Brake bias bar pedalbox

I would stick with the 5 speedbox (you've got more thn enough torque -- even the turbo 500 and Punto use a 5 speed) and you'll probably find the gearing is lowrered with a 6 speed. The Stilo flywheel and clutch are bolt on fits to the other FIRE engines.

For in car bias adjustment see Staniforth's Race and Rally Sourcebook.
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Old 21-07-2011   #6
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Re: Full Hydraulic Brake bias bar pedalbox

Quote Originally Posted by higgsey View Post
punto clutch is hydraulic so use a punto sporting 6 speed gearbox (has been done and is the same box as stilo i believe) hydraulic clutch will be a lot better than the cable...
Jup, already found the conversion threads, however they all are based on either a 1242 or stilo 1.4 block. And looking at the design of the block, it looks totally different. That's what made me wonder if it's even possible fitting the gearbox to the 1108 The reason I picked the stilo box is due the fact that I can source everything at once. Moreover I thought the stilo box didn't had the wheel rubbing issue, but I'm not sure about that.

Quote Originally Posted by fingers99 View Post
I would stick with the 5 speedbox (you've got more thn enough torque -- even the turbo 500 and Punto use a 5 speed) and you'll probably find the gearing is lowrered with a 6 speed. The Stilo flywheel and clutch are bolt on fits to the other FIRE engines.

For in car bias adjustment see Staniforth's Race and Rally Sourcebook.
I think that's the best option indeed, keeping the 5sp. Else I'm shifting more than actually driving I'm already going to convert it into short-shift anyway But still I think you're right and it's going to make things even worse. I've also looked into converting the 5sp. to hydraulic, but then I have to make a complete new clutch arm and mounting plate to hold the slave cylinder... I'm afraid it's not worth the effort in the end, what do you guys think?

Lovely book by the way! Ordered it right away! I know about camber,caster,brake bias, etc, but one can never learn enough, right?!!
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Old 21-07-2011   #7
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Re: Full Hydraulic Brake bias bar pedalbox

Just get Punto Mk1 hydraulic parts. The brackets, arm and cylinder all fit.

Cheers

D
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Old 21-07-2011   #8
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Re: Full Hydraulic Brake bias bar pedalbox

Yep, RCs way will work fine, although not many people have done it that way. Rubbing issues with the Stilo box really depend on the wheels/tyres, but can be overcome with a couple of simple lock stops.
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Old 21-07-2011   #9
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Re: Full Hydraulic Brake bias bar pedalbox

I went to the scrappy today and I found (haven't bought it yet ) one trophy! (The image below the box is the engine where it came from):



It's a 5speed gearbox from a 2003 Punto 1.2 8V 3door 2gen.2a with 70k on it's marker and it has the full hydraulic system on it

So question again will it fit? By the looks of it my intuition says and hopes yes Some extra info below about the box that makes me want it. It has a very linear build up (suite has a diff. of 9mph!) and a high enough top gear:


Oh, just to share, above diagram is taken from a site called automobile-catalog. It has tremendous amount of details about lots of cars!

So if it fits I'm done. If not I'm back on the conversion we talked about earlier. Speaking of which, I made 2 pictures to show the differences between the 1108 SPI box and the punto hydraulic box (see above for ex.) and my assumed difficulties modifying it to hydraulic, I didn't see how I can bolt it all straight on (may come in handy for any other future fiat forum visitor ):
1108:


Punto:


Many thanks for the help so far!!!
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Last edited by lxfusion; 21-07-2011 at 20:59. Reason: added image
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Old 21-07-2011   #10
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Re: Full Hydraulic Brake bias bar pedalbox

I found out that to make it fit I have to source a gearbox mount like Todgers one from a 6sp to start with or modify the existing one, because mine is mounted vertical instead of horizontal:

EDIT: Mount is from a 5 speed! thanks Todger
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Last edited by lxfusion; 21-07-2011 at 22:56.
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Old 21-07-2011   #11
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Re: Full Hydraulic Brake bias bar pedalbox

I transferred all of the driveshaft cups, selector, cable clutch arm, and the horseshoe mount all over from my 5 speed box to my new 6 speed.

Not sure of the SPI models have the same mount or whether they are different ?

Thanks

X
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Old 21-07-2011   #12
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Re: Full Hydraulic Brake bias bar pedalbox

This is what the mount looks like:

And it looks very similar to the mount you(Todger) and Green16V(shown below) used. Only the bracket differs, the mount is the same. He says in his thread that the gearbox is from a stilo, but probably swapped mounts like you.

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Last edited by lxfusion; 21-07-2011 at 23:27.
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Old 21-07-2011   #13
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Re: Full Hydraulic Brake bias bar pedalbox

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Old 21-07-2011   #14
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Re: Full Hydraulic Brake bias bar pedalbox

The box from the picture and the mount from Todger are from a 5 speed Punto 85 1242 16V, right? because I can't find the mount anywhere on the ePER
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Old 21-07-2011   #15
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Re: Full Hydraulic Brake bias bar pedalbox

Quote Originally Posted by lxfusion View Post
The box from the picture and the mount from Todger are from a 5 speed Punto 85 1242 16V, right? because I can't find the mount anywhere on the ePER
nope sei gearbox

Ash
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