The car has a 1.2 16v fitted with a 48mm TB amongst other things and failed the MOT on emissions. At the time I just left it as the car was pissing me off ( i had to withdraw from a couple of events ) and I basically got told that I got what I deserved for bolting stuff onto my car.

Now that I am in the frame of mind to work on it I thought I would check the lambda sensor which turned out to be working ok but the ignition seemed well advanced.

I am from a different era when all we had were distributors and carbs. I have no understanding of ECU's and injection and the thought of messing about with maps or building megasquirts fills me with dread. I have approached three businesses in the area looking to see about having Megasquirt /Omex fitted but pinning anyone down to actually do the work is akin to chasing a pea around a plate.

On Monday I will check the the cam and crank timing in case I did something wrong when I cured the oil leaks and check for anything else I may have cocked up.

In the meantime, if anyone knows anyone who does remap ECU's or someone who actually is prepared to strap an aftermarket one to my car then please let me know, as the new season approaches and I could do with putting these problems to bed.

Mind you there is an Alfa 147 race car on fleabay, which would solve all the hassle the Cinq is giving me at the moment.

OK, so if it is the 18FD ECU, then the 31 degrees of cam advance is in fact more like 13. I was once trying to convince the author of IAW that he should take into account a "flaw" in 18FD's documentation that he is using and make a different advance conversion, but he said that documentations ought to be followed (and as a side note - I think, scrap that - I know, that injection time conversion formula in the documentation is also wrong by a factor of 2 or 4 time, not sure what IES reports).

Obviously failing emissions does not have anything to do with you "bolting stuff on" (I was once told by MOT guys that my emission problems are due to the turbo - on idle!!! yes, surely...).

If your spark plugs are in order (I assume you take care of the care properly), two things to check are lambda and cat. For lambda what I'd do is I would reset the autocalibration with IES, and then see the values of lambda correction. After settling in (full warmup plus couple of minutes of running on idle) they should oscillate around 1.0, both up and down. Sticking to one side of 1.0 permanently would suggest something is wrong with the oxygen sensor.

And for the cat - if you don't have one then this is probably your problem. Otherwise check for exhaust leaks, etc.

The other really bad option for bad emissions is burning a lot of oil and/or failed HG.

(Sorry for perhaps stating some obvious facts, but people tend to forget about basics when annoyed with objects like cars and being convinced all sits in the ECU ).

Thanks for the reply Woj.
The plugs are in good order but interestingly the Lambda sensor is running in the range specified but the correction is showing 1.0 permanently.

13 degrees sounds fine to me, far better than 31. There is a cat but if the mixture is as rich as the garage MOT printout then I wonder if it will have survived anyway.

I did a pressure test on the cylinders and they were all pretty equal but I can easily do another one to make sure. There is no oil in water or vice versa.

I have a spare Lambda sensor somewhere off the old 8v that was in it before so I will put that in if things aren't checking out.

Thank you for all the help so far

Aideym said:

but the correction is showing 1.0 permanently

Click to expand...

This narrows it down a lot. Stiff 1.0 correction means that lambda is working in open loop mode = not working. Couple of possible reasons:

1. Shot sensor, giving implausible readings. For IAW 18FD there is also a parameter somewhere in the list showing the actual sensor reading in volts, you can check and see what it does.

2. Sensor OK, but the fuel system doing things causing the lambda operation to go out of bounds and/or not coping with the fuel delivery. Did you change anything in the fuel supply system? Fuel pressure regulator, injectors? Is the vacuum connection to FPR sound?

3. Something else causing the ECU to stay in lambda open loop. The first guess here would be a shot or wrong coolant temperature sensor and ECU thinking the engine is too cold. This engine and ECU comes with two different types (they have different colours AFAIK). And there are two differently calibrated ECUs (with different programs / chips) for these two different sensors, if these are intermixed interesting things can be happening. Unfortunately, even if you tell me the colour of your CTS and the exact software version of the ECU I'd still not be able to tell you if this is a correct match or not...

Apart from that there could be also some weirdo situations (a short in the ECU loom), but I'd first check and analyse the above

The volts were jumping around quite happily and staying within .500 - .900

I may need a prompt to what FPR is. Fuel pump relay??

I will also check the altered wiring loom that connects cinquecento to Punto looms.

Plenty to be going on with for Monday that is for certain

Fuel Pressure Regulator, this funny mushroom thing somewhere on the fuel rail.

.5 to .9 is only one side of oxygen sensor operation, but I don't remember which, lean or rich. It should certainly go also below .5.

woj said:

I was once trying to convince the author of IAW that he should take into account a "flaw" in 18FD's documentation that he is using and make a different advance conversion, but he said that documentations ought to be followed (and as a side note - I think, scrap that - I know, that injection time conversion formula in the documentation is also wrong by a factor of 2 or 4 time, not sure what IES reports).

Click to expand...

Don't remember that... only thing you have pointed out was slow refresh rate, you also told me about the raw lambda voltage which I had implemented. Injection quantity is probably per whole cycle (all 4 injectors) not per cylinder/injector.

There is also a flag indicating whether lambda is in closed loop or not.

Lambda may not enter to closed loop due to incorrect MAP readings.

TzOk said:

Don't remember that... only thing you have noticed was slow refresh rate, you also told about the raw lambda voltage which I had implemented.

Click to expand...

I am do not recall the details and I can't be bothered to dig out the conversation but I am sure we also discussed the ignition angle conversion and weird values reported by 18FD when using the formula from the doc.

TzOk said:

Injection quantity is probably per whole cycle (all 4 injectors) not per cylinder/injector.

Click to expand...

The problem is in the opposite direction, the injection times reported by 18FD and converted according to the formula in the documentation are shorter 2 or 4 times (don't remember, but can check if you want to) than the actual measured pulse width on the ECU output(s).

EDIT: The conversion is off by the factor of 4 for injection in 18FD. It should be X/125 instead of X/500

I'll have a look for the above mentioned flag. To be honest until an hour ago I wasn't aware of the significance of the closed loop, the correction or very much else. all I knew was it was bloody difficult to remove

As the IAW18FD is a semi-sequential type injection, does the X/125 stands for impulse time for a single injector or a total open time for all 4 injectors during one engine cycle?
How does it look for a full-group IAW8F (where each injector is actuated twice during the engine cycle)?

X/125 for 18FD is pulse of a single injector opening, which happens 2 times per engine cycle with two injectors each time.

X/500 for 18F is again one pulse of a single injector, which happens 2 times per engine cycle with all four injectors each time.

Now the interesting bit:

X/500 for 16F is one pulse of a single (and the only) injector, which happens 4 times per engine cycle.

The logged times calculated with the above formula are comparable for the first two cases, which makes sense. 18FD injectors are 200ccm, 18F injectors are effectively ~120ccm, but they deliver twice as much fuel compared to 18FD the way they work.

The logged times for 16F are much shorter than for the other two (e.g. 0.8ms compared to 1.6-2ms on warm idle). Again this makes sense when the ~500ccm injector squirts twice per each engine rotation. The double squirting is to more uniformly distribute the fuel in different cylinders.

But in any case, X/500 does not make sense for 18FD any way you look at it or try to calculate the fuel output. 18FD documentation is one big copy and paste error from the old docs, while the program is very different internally (and also not very good, but that's another story).

EDIT: Also one way of looking at it is to check the values at full throttle. All ECU should report (considering their squirting pattern) fuel almost constantly - for 18FD at 6000 rpm the times should be nearing 20ms, for 18F 10ms, for 16F 5ms. When you get values like this that means that your conversion formula is ok

Some of one of the log reports in case it helps the discussion on the 18fd ECU


2015-12-10 16:47:26
IAW Scan 2 [v0.85]
CONNECTED TO:
Punto 1242 FIRE 16V CEE F2
Magneti-Marelli IAW-18FD/1G7 MPI
--------------------------------------------------------------

ISO Code: 55-31-80-0D-16-29
Spare Part Code: 61600.249.03

PARAMETERS:

PARAMETERS:

PARAMETERS:

PARAMETERS:
Engine Speed: 878 RPM
Injection Duration: 0.52 ms
Ignition Advance: 24.00 °
Manifold Absolute Pressure: 359 hPa
Air Temperature: 23 °C
Water Temperature: 83 °C
Throttle Opening Angle: 12.68 °
Battery Voltage: 13.94 V
Lambda Probe Correction: 1.00
Lambda Probe Voltage: 820.65 mV
Idle Stepper Motor Position: 64 steps
Idle Stepper Integral Gain: 0
Idle Stepper Proportional Gain: 32
Trimmer Position: 0 steps
Autocalibration Correction: 272
Autocalibration Correction with A/C: 0
Idle Engine Speed: 864 RPM
Idle Engine Speed Offset: 0 RPM
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 1: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 2: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 3: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 4: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 5: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 6: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ IDLE: 0 ms
Engine Running: YES
Sensor Signals OK: YES
Throttle at Min/Max: YES
Lambda Sensor in Closed Loop: NO
Air Conditioner ON: NO
Mixture AutoCalibration ENABLED: YES
Ignition Advance Decrased for Knocking: NO
Stepper AutoCalibration ENABLED: YES
Gear Engaged: NO

PARAMETERS:
Engine Speed: 866 RPM
Injection Duration: 0.51 ms
Ignition Advance: 25.00 °
Manifold Absolute Pressure: 355 hPa
Air Temperature: 23 °C
Water Temperature: 83 °C
Throttle Opening Angle: 12.68 °
Battery Voltage: 14.00 V
Lambda Probe Correction: 1.00
Lambda Probe Voltage: 820.65 mV
Idle Stepper Motor Position: 64 steps
Idle Stepper Integral Gain: 0
Idle Stepper Proportional Gain: 31
Trimmer Position: 0 steps
Autocalibration Correction: 400
Autocalibration Correction with A/C: 0
Idle Engine Speed: 864 RPM
Idle Engine Speed Offset: 0 RPM
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 1: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 2: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 3: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 4: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 5: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 6: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ IDLE: 0 ms
Engine Running: YES
Sensor Signals OK: YES
Throttle at Min/Max: YES
Lambda Sensor in Closed Loop: NO
Air Conditioner ON: NO
Mixture AutoCalibration ENABLED: YES
Ignition Advance Decrased for Knocking: NO
Stepper AutoCalibration ENABLED: YES
Gear Engaged: NO

PARAMETERS:
Engine Speed: 900 RPM
Injection Duration: 0.51 ms
Ignition Advance: 26.00 °
Manifold Absolute Pressure: 355 hPa
Air Temperature: 23 °C
Water Temperature: 83 °C
Throttle Opening Angle: 13.53 °
Battery Voltage: 14.00 V
Lambda Probe Correction: 1.00
Lambda Probe Voltage: 760.87 mV
Idle Stepper Motor Position: 63 steps
Idle Stepper Integral Gain: 0
Idle Stepper Proportional Gain: 30
Trimmer Position: 0 steps
Autocalibration Correction: 528
Autocalibration Correction with A/C: 0
Idle Engine Speed: 864 RPM
Idle Engine Speed Offset: 0 RPM
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 1: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 2: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 3: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 4: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 5: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 6: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ IDLE: 0 ms
Engine Running: YES
Sensor Signals OK: YES
Throttle at Min/Max: NO
Lambda Sensor in Closed Loop: NO
Air Conditioner ON: NO
Mixture AutoCalibration ENABLED: YES
Ignition Advance Decrased for Knocking: NO
Stepper AutoCalibration ENABLED: YES
Gear Engaged: NO

PARAMETERS:
Engine Speed: 2925 RPM
Injection Duration: 0.42 ms
Ignition Advance: 44.00 °
Manifold Absolute Pressure: 301 hPa
Air Temperature: 23 °C
Water Temperature: 84 °C
Throttle Opening Angle: 18.60 °
Battery Voltage: 13.88 V
Lambda Probe Correction: 1.00
Lambda Probe Voltage: 760.87 mV
Idle Stepper Motor Position: 77 steps
Idle Stepper Integral Gain: 0
Idle Stepper Proportional Gain: 30
Trimmer Position: 0 steps
Autocalibration Correction: 528
Autocalibration Correction with A/C: 0
Idle Engine Speed: 864 RPM
Idle Engine Speed Offset: 0 RPM
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 1: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 2: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 3: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 4: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 5: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 6: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ IDLE: 0 ms
Engine Running: YES
Sensor Signals OK: YES
Throttle at Min/Max: NO
Lambda Sensor in Closed Loop: NO
Air Conditioner ON: NO
Mixture AutoCalibration ENABLED: YES
Ignition Advance Decrased for Knocking: NO
Stepper AutoCalibration ENABLED: YES
Gear Engaged: NO

PARAMETERS:
Engine Speed: 3117 RPM
Injection Duration: 0.44 ms
Ignition Advance: 43.00 °
Manifold Absolute Pressure: 305 hPa
Air Temperature: 23 °C
Water Temperature: 84 °C
Throttle Opening Angle: 19.45 °
Battery Voltage: 13.94 V
Lambda Probe Correction: 1.00
Lambda Probe Voltage: 804.35 mV
Idle Stepper Motor Position: 77 steps
Idle Stepper Integral Gain: 0
Idle Stepper Proportional Gain: 30
Trimmer Position: 0 steps
Autocalibration Correction: 528
Autocalibration Correction with A/C: 0
Idle Engine Speed: 864 RPM
Idle Engine Speed Offset: 0 RPM
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 1: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 2: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 3: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 4: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 5: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 6: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ IDLE: 0 ms
Engine Running: YES
Sensor Signals OK: YES
Throttle at Min/Max: NO
Lambda Sensor in Closed Loop: NO
Air Conditioner ON: NO
Mixture AutoCalibration ENABLED: YES
Ignition Advance Decrased for Knocking: NO
Stepper AutoCalibration ENABLED: YES
Gear Engaged: NO

PARAMETERS:
Engine Speed: 2867 RPM
Injection Duration: 0.19 ms
Ignition Advance: 41.00 °
Manifold Absolute Pressure: 177 hPa
Air Temperature: 23 °C
Water Temperature: 84 °C
Throttle Opening Angle: 12.68 °
Battery Voltage: 13.81 V
Lambda Probe Correction: 1.00
Lambda Probe Voltage: 815.22 mV
Idle Stepper Motor Position: 69 steps
Idle Stepper Integral Gain: 0
Idle Stepper Proportional Gain: 30
Trimmer Position: 0 steps
Autocalibration Correction: 528
Autocalibration Correction with A/C: 0
Idle Engine Speed: 864 RPM
Idle Engine Speed Offset: 0 RPM
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 1: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 2: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 3: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 4: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 5: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 6: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ IDLE: 0 ms
Engine Running: YES
Sensor Signals OK: YES
Throttle at Min/Max: YES
Lambda Sensor in Closed Loop: NO
Air Conditioner ON: NO
Mixture AutoCalibration ENABLED: YES
Ignition Advance Decrased for Knocking: NO
Stepper AutoCalibration ENABLED: YES
Gear Engaged: NO

PARAMETERS:
Engine Speed: 1017 RPM
Injection Duration: 0.46 ms
Ignition Advance: 26.50 °
Manifold Absolute Pressure: 320 hPa
Air Temperature: 23 °C
Water Temperature: 84 °C
Throttle Opening Angle: 12.68 °
Battery Voltage: 14.00 V
Lambda Probe Correction: 1.00
Lambda Probe Voltage: 836.96 mV
Idle Stepper Motor Position: 65 steps
Idle Stepper Integral Gain: -4
Idle Stepper Proportional Gain: 33
Trimmer Position: 0 steps
Autocalibration Correction: 528
Autocalibration Correction with A/C: 0
Idle Engine Speed: 864 RPM
Idle Engine Speed Offset: 0 RPM
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 1: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 2: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 3: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 4: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 5: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 6: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ IDLE: 0 ms
Engine Running: YES
Sensor Signals OK: YES
Throttle at Min/Max: YES
Lambda Sensor in Closed Loop: NO
Air Conditioner ON: NO
Mixture AutoCalibration ENABLED: YES
Ignition Advance Decrased for Knocking: NO
Stepper AutoCalibration ENABLED: YES
Gear Engaged: NO

PARAMETERS:
Engine Speed: 855 RPM
Injection Duration: 0.00 ms
Ignition Advance: 26.00 °
Manifold Absolute Pressure: 363 hPa
Air Temperature: 23 °C
Water Temperature: 85 °C
Throttle Opening Angle: 12.68 °
Battery Voltage: 14.00 V
Lambda Probe Correction: 1.00
Lambda Probe Voltage: 826.09 mV
Idle Stepper Motor Position: 62 steps
Idle Stepper Integral Gain: 0
Idle Stepper Proportional Gain: 30
Trimmer Position: 0 steps
Autocalibration Correction: 528
Autocalibration Correction with A/C: 0
Idle Engine Speed: 864 RPM
Idle Engine Speed Offset: 0 RPM
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 1: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 2: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 3: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 4: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 5: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ ZONE 6: 0 ms
Autocalibration Injection Offset @ IDLE: 0 ms
Engine Running: YES
Sensor Signals OK: YES
Throttle at Min/Max: YES
Lambda Sensor in Closed Loop: NO
Air Conditioner ON: NO
Mixture AutoCalibration ENABLED: YES
Ignition Advance Decrased for Knocking: NO
Stepper AutoCalibration ENABLED: YES
Gear Engaged: NO

I assume there was a throttle press in the process. What would also help is to see what errors are logged.

There is nothing suspicious in this in principle. In the errors I am guessing there is lambda sensor fault and/or EVAP canister valve fault. Either of them would cause the ECU not to autocalibrate the fuel (and that's why all autocalibration parameters are zero), but only the first one not to go into closed loop.

To mitigate the EVAP canister fault you can plug a 22ohm high power resistor into the EVAP valve plug pins.

ECU indicated throttle closed... so it was not the case, mixture auto-calibration is also enabled. MAP is within the limits for a warm idle, so there have to be errors stored that prevent from entering into lambda closed loop.

Trust me, the ECU does not autocalibrate without EVAP valve no matter what the autocalibration status reports. The status merely states that it is enabled, but not that it is actually effective.

I never stated anything different - it won't autocalibrate when it will see EVAP fault or lambda fault.

Mixture auto-calibration is an autocalibration switch flag, not a status flag, I know that. I just stated that it is correctly enabled. Actually I noticed that everything what I can see in this log is correct, but lambda is in open loop, so the only option is presence of errors that prevent it from entering into a closed loop.

Sorry if I wasn't precise, English is not my native/everyday language.

There is no EVAP on the car. Does this mean I need to find one?

ERRORS:
EVAP Valve Short to GND/Open [A][V]

ERRORS:
EVAP Valve Short to GND/Open [A][V]

ERRORS:
EVAP Valve Short to GND/Open [A][V]

ERRORS:
EVAP Valve Short to GND/Open [A][V]

Aideym said:

There is no EVAP on the car. Does this mean I need to find one?

Click to expand...

No, not really, not the complete EVAP system. Just something that would fool the ECU. Either plug in just the valve from the EVAP canister (leaving the canister and its fuel system connections out) to the plug, or just plug in a resistor instead.

But it still does not explain the inability to go into closed loop, absence of EVAP would not cause it. The absence only disables autocalibration, not lambda operation. This leaves me puzzled for the moment. I was almost certain there would also be an O2 sensor fault.

TzOk said:

Sorry if I wasn't precise, English is not my native/everyday language.

Click to expand...

No, you were very precise , I tend to get sloppy when reading