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Old 17-10-2010   #1
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Rebuilding an engine for turbo'ing

I have done a minor rebuild on my currect 1242 non turbo engine.
I replaced als teh gasket's and cleaned the top of the pistons.
But that time I left the crankshaft in place with the pistons in the cilinders.

This time I want to build an engine that's ready for a turbo.
To do this I will have to replace the piston rods with 16v one's to lower the compression.
I have a couple of questions about this.

How hard is it to do this in you're own garage?
I only have regular tools and a torque wrench.

Can I use a 1242cc engine and place the 16v rods or must it be a 1108cc engine?

Do the cilinders need to be honed?
Do teh cilinders need to be bored to the right size?

Do I need to use the orginal pisons of the engine or the 16v pistons?

How can I switch the pistons on the rods?

I want to replace the piston rings, how to do this?

Is the crankshaft set with special clearance requiremenst or is it just
putting it in place and torque it up?

I would like to have some examples/pictures of how it's done.
As I never took an engine apart that far.

Also good ideas and tips to create the perfect engine are welcome.
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Old 17-10-2010   #2
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Re: Rebuilding an engine for turbo'ing

the key part to an engine rebuild is cleanliness

a hone of the pistons would be recommended so the rings can work there way in

IIRC is the 1242 16v pistons are rods you use in the 1242 8V block they will go straight in as the cc is the same

you will need a piston ring compressor to get it into the cylinders, if you get new piston rings you will have to check that the gaps in the cylinders are correct

new shell bearings and thrust washers for the crank

Ash
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Old 17-10-2010   #3
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Re: Rebuilding an engine for turbo'ing

What does "IIRC" mean? I see it a lot on the forum but I don't know what it means.
English is not my native language.

I heard that the Punto 75 (MPI) and Punto 60 (SPI) 1242 engine's are different.
The MPI version has smaller pistons and a longer stroke.
The SPI version has bigger pistons and a short stroke.

Is this correct?
If so what do I need to make the 16v pistons fit?

Also I want to use a MPI cilinderhead.
As far as I know this head fits on an 1108 spi block so it would also fit on an 1242 SPI block?

The car will be using a KdFI as it's ECU.
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Old 17-10-2010   #4
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Re: Rebuilding an engine for turbo'ing

IIRC = If i remember correctly
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Old 17-10-2010   #5
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Re: Rebuilding an engine for turbo'ing

Quote Originally Posted by MKoers View Post
I heard that the Punto 75 (MPI) and Punto 60 (SPI) 1242 engine's are different.
The MPI version has smaller pistons and a longer stroke.
The SPI version has bigger pistons and a short stroke.
The engine blocks for 1.2 60 SPI and 75 MPI are the same from what could read in the service manual. The 1.1 SPI is different from the two.

Quote Quote:
Also I want to use a MPI cilinderhead.
As far as I know this head fits on an 1108 spi block so it would also fit on an 1242 SPI block?
That should be no problem, the fitting / mating problems start above the head, that is if you want to mate an SPI inlet manifold onto an MPI head, etc.

Regarding engine rebuild. For mine I slept on doing this for about two months, thought about problems, things I would need to get, arrangements in the basement to do it cleanly, reading tons of posts on the forum, etc. I was also very hot for 16V pistons + rods, but couldn't get my hands on a decent set. As it later turned out it worked out for good, because for the moderate boost levels I have the circa 7.8:1 compression that 16V pistons provide would be waaay too low.

In the end I found an engine rebuild garage close to home that did everything for 700 Euro, including cleaning, honing, replacement of all bottom replaceables (rigns, shaft bearings, etc.), block surface skim (very important when using a decomp plate), full head work, full set of engine gaskets, set of head bolts, plus a small tip for timely service (apparently something to be very careful about here, he said: "Give me a hard deadline, if not it will take 1-2 years before I get to your engine" ). I delivered a stripped engine in two parts (stripped block + stripped head), and picked up the same set, but new and shiny. I saved them (and myself couple of hundred of $$$) putting on the head, oil pump, sump, shaft seals, timing belt etc. These I was planning on doing myself anyhow for education. Overall I say it was a bargain (almost 300 Euro in the bill were the parts) and probably saved me good six weeks of heavy swearing and I guess also quite a bit of money considering all the missing tools I would need to buy. Plus the confidence it will not blow up (and it did not) on the first start, because I did something wrong
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Old 17-10-2010   #6
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Re: Rebuilding an engine for turbo'ing

Do you have an website or something from that company?

And how far did you strip the block?

And how did you get it back?
As I understand you got the cilinderhead back assembled.
And the block assembled without the oilpump and the sump.
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Old 17-10-2010   #7
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Re: Rebuilding an engine for turbo'ing

Quote Originally Posted by MKoers View Post
Do you have an website or something from that company?
They do not have a website, but here is all you need:

http://nijmegen.yalwa.nl/ID_10264264...s-en-Waal.html

Quote Quote:
And how far did you strip the block?
Almost all the way, the only thing that was left was the block with the shaft in it. Everything that they do they will charge you at 50 Euros / hour. It is worth to do all those simple, but timely things yourself.

Quote Quote:
And how did you get it back?
Meaning? I got the the same stripped block, but honed, skimmed with new shaft bearings and piston rings. I put it in a large plastic bag and put it on the floor of passenger side in my car and drove it back home.

Quote Quote:
As I understand you got the cilinderhead back assembled.
Yes, the valves, seals, cam shaft all in. Plus the clearances set up to my request (don't ask me what they were, I lost the this piece of paper where I had it written down, but they were not factory, some advise I got for a turbo engine, not sure it was a good move, sometimes I do not like the sounds the engine makes).

Quote Quote:
And the block assembled without the oilpump and the sump.
Right, see above.
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Old 17-10-2010   #8
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Re: Rebuilding an engine for turbo'ing

Quote Originally Posted by woj View Post
The engine blocks for 1.2 60 SPI and 75 MPI are the same from what could read in the service manual. The 1.1 SPI is different from the two.
They differ on the earlier (pre 176.B4.XXX) SPI engines (iirc). There is a difference in the design of the... crap, I can't remember now - I can't remember if it's a bracing 'web' near the crank - or the bracing on the big ends. The '75' has oil jets that cool the pistons too
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Old 17-10-2010   #9
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Re: Rebuilding an engine for turbo'ing

Quote Originally Posted by arc View Post
The '75' has oil jets that cool the pistons too
yep and the 75 is decked so the compression is a bit higher. which helps when using the 16valve pistons
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Old 17-10-2010   #10
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Re: Rebuilding an engine for turbo'ing

So its better to use a 75 block as it spray's the pistons to cool down?

About the crankshaft.
I want to replace all the bearingcaps with new ones as the engine is apart anyway.
Do I have to do anything to the crankshaft itself als maintaince?
Same story with the pistonsrods.

And is the crankshaft somehow aligned?
Or is it just bolted in place?
Are there gaskets or seals between the pistonrods and the crankshaft?
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Old 17-10-2010   #11
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Re: Rebuilding an engine for turbo'ing

Quote Quote:
So its better to use a 75 block as it spray's the pistons to cool down?
yep

Quote Quote:
About the crankshaft.
I want to replace all the bearingcaps with new ones as the engine is apart anyway.
Do I have to do anything to the crankshaft itself als maintaince?
Same story with the pistonsrods.
check the shells first, my 75 engine they where fine so no need to replace, same with the big end (conrod) shells. imho as long as the engine has had reasonable oil changes and not run low on oil then the shells will all be fine

Quote Quote:
And is the crankshaft somehow aligned?
Or is it just bolted in place?
Are there gaskets or seals between the pistonrods and the crankshaft?
not sure what you mean? one of the crank shaft shells has thrust bearing welded onto each side.

no seals in the engine, only the 2 at each end of the crank shaft
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Old 21-10-2010   #12
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Re: Rebuilding an engine for turbo'ing

I'm searching for a good pic to show it but I have'nt found one yet.

I'll give it one more try:

When you have the crankshaft there are 4 points were you connect the piston rods.
When the crankshaft rotats the pistons rods go up and down and move from front to back (front of car and back of car).

You don't want them to move from left to right as that will grind against the crankshaft. (does massive plates).
Are there any washers between the crankshaft and the sides of the piston rods?
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Old 22-10-2010   #13
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Re: Rebuilding an engine for turbo'ing

No, but there is a thrush bearing on the center of the crank
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Old 22-10-2010   #14
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Re: Rebuilding an engine for turbo'ing

Quote Originally Posted by Brooky View Post
No, but there is a thrush bearing on the center of the crank
my cranks never bared thrush haha

but I think he means the con rods.

they dont have anything stopping the sliding on the crank but each side of the rod is machined flat as is the crank and its basically sitting in oil so they will never contact each other
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Old 24-10-2010   #15
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Re: Rebuilding an engine for turbo'ing

OK. That's good to know
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