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Old 11-10-2010   #1
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Intermittent non-starting

Annoying problem with my Cinq Sporting for the last week or so.

Turn to 1, injector, battery, oil and code lights on, then code and injector lights go out (normal). More often that not it will start up fine, but sometimes fails to on the first try. If it does, usually turning back off, waiting for the relay by the ECU to click off then trying again works. Fuel pump can be heard priming both times. Differing weather makes no odds, cold and damp on Friday morning last week and it started first time. Same for how long it has been sat without being started.

Shortest time between parking up and trying to start again would have been maybe three hours on a hot day, where it started first time but was turning over for longer than usual.

I had let the battery run down a few months back (unrelated to this), it was quicker to swap to a new one that was in the garage than to jump start so that's a recently new.

Starter motor sounds fine, just as before. Once started the car runs fine, sounds the same, no hesitation, etc. Same fuel economy as before.

Fuel filter was overdue (but had been changed before) - changed.
Spark plugs not due, but close. Changed, old plugs clean and dry.
Battery is 12.2v at idle.

What else should I be looking at? Considering it runs fine I've ruled some stuff out (map, crank sensor, fuel pump, HT leads, coils) but does anyone reckon I should try new parts anyway?

I think I have some coils from an 899 in the garage, will they fit a Sporting?

tldr version: Cinq Sporting intermittent starting problem, fitted new fuel filter and plugs, old plugs clean and dry, weather/time sat makes no odds, runs fine once started, HALP.
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Last edited by BlueDan; 12-10-2010 at 00:00.
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Old 12-10-2010   #2
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Re: Intermittent non-starting

Quote Quote:
I think I have some coils from an 899 in the garage, will they fit a Sporting?
yes they will.

I think crank sensor. But try cleaning up the connections to the main relay and ECU.

The fact that the fuel pump primes suggests that the relay is working, as the pump, coils, injector etc all switch through it.
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Last edited by arc; 12-10-2010 at 00:36.
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Old 12-10-2010   #3
is annoying.
 
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Re: Intermittent non-starting

Aha.
Now.

Once or twice, when giving up turning over I can hear the fuel pump re-prime (but not every time). I have all the relays from the old 899 at home, I'll try replacing that too (along with the coils), just in case (thinking it's failing to hold the circuit closed sometimes while the starter is drawing most of the current from the battery).

Shame the 899 HT leads are the wrong length (iirc).

What to use to clean up the connections, I was going to attack anything I could get to with a fibreglass pen, then I realised that would removing any coating (copper or other), then it would work for now but tarnish up again quicker.

(tethering on T-Mobile roaming on Orange is SLOW).
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Old 12-10-2010   #4
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Re: Intermittent non-starting

I would also say the crank sensor is at fault.
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Old 12-10-2010   #5
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Re: Intermittent non-starting

Ok, I'll try giving the face a clean first, make sure it's properly positioned, and reseat the connector, as it seems to be £30+ :/ (ePER 55189513)

I suppose it's one of those things it's not worth getting from a scrapped car?

Also, I found this, true?

Quote Quote:
If you unplug the crank sensor and put an ohm meter across it, if it reads open-circuit/no reading at all it needs changing.
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Old 16-10-2010   #6
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Re: Intermittent non-starting

How do you unplug the crank sensor? Bit hard to see while it is where it is, but is it the same type of plug as the large relay next to the ECU? Push the bar down, then it just slips off?

Also, I've noticed something a bit off.

Parked pointing up all this week, started first time.

Had to park level at work once, same starting problem as before.

Still runs fine once started at whatever level.



Also I hadn't checked before, then found out today the Sporting has the already mentioned big relay, instead of the couple of separate ones behind the ECU like an 899, so no chance of swapping that to try :/
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Old 16-10-2010   #7
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Re: Intermittent non-starting

push down bar, and then pull apart yeah.

Weird that it starts fine when pointing up - what is the fuel level like? The pickup is toward the front of the tank.. so pointing up would starve it if low.. maybe when it's level the priming pulse is too long / injector sticks and floods it. Stick some redex in it
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Old 16-10-2010   #8
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Re: Intermittent non-starting

Quote Originally Posted by arc View Post
push down bar, and then pull apart yeah.

Weird that it starts fine when pointing up - what is the fuel level like? The pickup is toward the front of the tank.. so pointing up would starve it if low.. maybe when it's level the priming pulse is too long / injector sticks and floods it. Stick some redex in it
Fuel at all levels, unfortunately getting through a tank a week/25-26l with driving up to Stafford four days a week

At work, I'd just filled up before the shift and it'd only been parked up four hours. When pointing upwards on the drive at home it can be there overnight and start ok.

I kinda wish it wouldn't start at all, then at least I'd know when it was fixed.
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Old 18-11-2010   #9
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Re: Intermittent non-starting

Zombie thread time.

It's the while relay box by the ECU: I added a switch (some weeks ago now) to perform the same function as the relay inside (the larger one that switches the fuel pump, lambda, coils, injector and charcoal canister; item 11 on the Haynes diagram, iirc). If it fails to start, start cranking, switch on, then back off once started.

I can't find the thing on the ePER though, spent about 20 minutes having a good dig around, does anyone know the number for it?

There are couple on the flea, but I can't see the point in buying an even older one (this one is 12.5 years/68k), unless it's something that usually doesn't fail?

(or maybe even solder a regular relay in, while I have the old one opened up... )
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