Technical 1242 running chronically rich

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Technical 1242 running chronically rich

Fivehundred

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Jan 16, 2006
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Milton Keynes
A friend of mine has a Cinq, which I converted to a 1242 about a year ago. I used a very low mileage SPI engine and it’s been running beautifully.

A couple of weeks ago it flashed the fault light a couple of times, then it missed at a traffic light, followed by driving home perfectly normally. The next day it went down to two cylinders, followed by a total refusal to re-start. (I witnessed none of this it is anecdotal). It got towed into a local garage, which diagnosed a faulty crank sensor and replaced it. It then ran for about 10 miles, though apparently not quite as sweetly as normal.

It then started to run chronically rich, sounds like a bag of nails, won’t really rev, though it starts easily. It is certainly not driveable. Yesterday I picked it up and took it to Days in Milton Keynes to get the fault codes read. The faults it throws up is MAP sensor and coils.

Today I put on a MAP sensor from a running car, re set the ECU absolutely no change. Both coils are firing, but one seemed weaker and the plug was wet, I fitted one new coil and a new set of plugs, it made absolutely no difference. The old plugs are as black as the Ace of Spades.

I replaced the throttle body assembly with the original one from the car, it uses the Punto one normally, no change.

I pulled the oxygen sensor and started the car in case the cat was plugged, lot of noise still runs like a dog.

My understanding is the oxygen sensor goes open loop when the car is started from cold so it should make no difference? Besides it is only 4000 miles old. There again the crank sensor was also new when I fitted the engine.

I’m pretty sure it is timed up properly, it runs very evenly, just very rich, the timing belt and tensioner were new when I fitted the engine.

I tried an uncoded ECU from an M plate Sporting, car runs just as badly with that ECU

Could the temperature sensor be causing this?

Any other thoughts please?
 
If the temp sensor failed it would default to 70 ish degrees....the EM light would be on and it would run open loop, and the lambda wouldn't come into play.

If the EM light is not on, i would guess the temp sensor is ok.

How do you know it is rich.....the fouled plugh, the smell, or something else?

Kristian
 
The fouled plugs, the smell. The engine is OK, I compression tested it 225PSI on all the pots totally even.

It will rev, sort off, and you get unburnt fuel billowing out of the throttle body. I'm fairly sure it is timed up properly, no uneven running, no backfires. Tomorrow I'll look at the belt properly though. I just get this sense I'm missing something really silly and obvious, darned if I can see it though.
 
Have you tried replacing the injector? I had a problem with an injector where it tended to stick open injecting way to much fuel into a cylinder.
 
Have you tried replacing the injector? I had a problem with an injector where it tended to stick open injecting way to much fuel into a cylinder.

:yeahthat:

exactly what i was trying to say but my carpy internet kept timing out....sounds like what the problem is.

unscrew it, turn ignition on, see if it squirts before it cranks....sahme its spi...easier to diagnose injectors on mpi. a replacment is easy though, 5 mins :)

Kristian
 
you're running out of sensors... i wonder if it is the coolant temperature sensor. i'm not too sure if it'd throw an error on the ECU of a cinq if it failed. symptons sound exactly like when i had a loose wire on mine (but this is MS ECU).

ive dug out my spare coolant sensor, and took some readings. with the sensor cold (guess around 10-15c) it was 3.8k ohm. then i ran it under the hot tap and checked it again, 1.2k ohm. not very accurate, but might be worth checking the sensor you have there.

the air temp sensor is in the TB too, so it can't be that.

unless its summit daft like a dodgy connection on the ECU. Try cleaning the contacts up, and make sure it's all snuggly clipped in.
 
Thank you for those readings, I'll test tomorrow.

The strange thing is that the fault code was MAP sensor, and I've swapped in the MAP sensor from another car, and it stubbornly refuses to run properly, and fitted this car's MAP to the running Cinq, which is perfectly happy with it. Even swapping the ECU made no difference.

As you say the temperature sensor is the only one left. Other than the crank sensor, which is now brand new and the car starts without any hesitation at all.

I'm inclined to think it isn't timing belt jumping, given it started with brief flashes of the management light.

you're running out of sensors... i wonder if it is the coolant temperature sensor. i'm not too sure if it'd throw an error on the ECU of a cinq if it failed. symptons sound exactly like when i had a loose wire on mine (but this is MS ECU).

ive dug out my spare coolant sensor, and took some readings. with the sensor cold (guess around 10-15c) it was 3.8k ohm. then i ran it under the hot tap and checked it again, 1.2k ohm. not very accurate, but might be worth checking the sensor you have there.

the air temp sensor is in the TB too, so it can't be that.

unless its summit daft like a dodgy connection on the ECU. Try cleaning the contacts up, and make sure it's all snuggly clipped in.
 
Re: 1242 running chronically rich. Fixed it

I finally had another chance to look at the Cinq today, and did what I usually preach, check systematically.

And the fault was: the timing belt had jumped. Surprisingly it wasn't spitting back, and I'd convinced myself "the timing is fine". It wasn't the car now runs perfectly normally:eek:

As to why the timing had jumped, no idea. The tensioner hadn't come loose, the belt is only just over 4000 miles old. Thank you all for your input.
 
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