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Old 5 Days Ago   #1
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Ireland 
Clutch not disengaging

My '09 1.6 Mjet Fiat Bravo is having a clutch issue.

The issue is that it is constantly engaged. I checked the brake fluid and it was low, so I topped it up. That did nothing and I also noticed that it went down again after. So, there is a leak somewhere.

I am thinking it is the concentric slave cylinder but I thought I would post here first if there are any other common issues it could be.

I do not want to have to change this part as its extremely expensive, I may as well change the clutch while I am at it.

EDIT: IF its apparent that I need to change it, does anyone have a 1.6 Bravo clutch change guide? There seems to be very little online
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Last edited by barry181091; 5 Days Ago at 18:30.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #2
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Re: Clutch not disengaging

Hi

If the cylinder has failed.. that missing fluid will drip out somewhere..
Follow the mess
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Old 5 Days Ago   #3
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Ireland 
Re: Clutch not disengaging

If you click on 'Downloads' in the blue band at the top of the page, scroll down to Bravo, click on this, then scroll down to New Bravo eLearn and open this, you'll find the official Fiat repair manual (it's in 8 'zip' files) -this might have the info on clutch changing that you're looking for. (I can't help you with opening these files if you don't know how to, sorry)

As 'varesecrazy' says above, see where the brake/clutch fluid is leaking to - but if you don't see any leaks under the gearbox, bear in mind it could afaik be leaking inside the car and running down into the soundproofing under the carpet, (i.e. clutch master cylinder failure).

Al.
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Last edited by F123C; 5 Days Ago at 01:18.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #4
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Ireland 
Re: Clutch not disengaging

Quote Originally Posted by F123C View Post
If you click on 'Downloads' in the blue band at the top of the page, scroll down to Bravo, click on this, then scroll down to New Bravo eLearn and open this, you'll find the official Fiat repair manual (it's in 8 'zip' files) -this might have the info on clutch changing that you're looking for. (I can't help you with opening these files if you don't know how to, sorry)

As 'varesecrazy' says above, see where the brake/clutch fluid is leaking to - but if you don't see any leaks under the gearbox, bear in mind it could afaik be leaking inside the car and running down into the soundproofing under the carpet, (i.e. clutch master cylinder failure).

Al.
Ah I have had the eLearn for the past two years alright! Unfortunately the 1.6 is not in this elearn. Only 1.9 diesel and some petrol models.

There are definitely leaks under the car alright, I just don't have a jack right now to go looking. So the fluid can just leak through the bell housing? I will have to do that soon as my starter won't last too much longer!

I see you are in Ireland youself too, have you had any experience working on the Bravo's?

Ive been quoted roughly 800 to change the clutch and slave cylinder. Unfortunately I don't think the car is worth it for that money, fair enough if it was worth 5k+.

On the other hand, I can get the parts for 250ish and go working on it, but I imagine it would take a LOT of time.

Then again, I can't see myself getting much for a car that is nonfunctional really.
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Last edited by barry181091; 4 Days Ago at 16:55.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #5
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Re: Clutch not disengaging

Have you seen the exploded views on the parts sites though..,

Its possible the grande sections eLEARN does cover the 1.6..
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Old 4 Days Ago   #6
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Re: Clutch not disengaging

Hi Barry?,

If your car has indeed got the concentric clutch slave cylinder, then this is situated inside the bellhousing and any fluid leaking from it will flow downwards and find it's way out at the bottom of the bellhousing, close to the end of the engine sump. It shouldn't really get on or affect your starter motor unless it's been splashed around a lot.
If you try feeling brake fluid between your fingers, it'll feel less oily than engine or gearbox oil, plus it should still be relatively clear, same as new brake fluid, unlike engine oil which goes black fairly quickly (especially on a diesel).
You don't need a jack to do a quick check on this -just lie on the ground, reach in and feel whatever is leaking. (or park with 2 wheels on a kerb, to raise one side of the car and slide underneath).

I've got a 2008, petrol,1.4 90hp Bravo.
There's only 14,000 miles on mine (I usually use another car) so have only carried out servicing and a timing belt change.

Maybe your 1.6 Multijet is the same as the 1.9 as regards the clutch?

The official Fiat manuals seem to go in for too much removal of items when doing repairs - on my car (1.4 petrol), they say the engine and gearbox have to be removed as one unit, then split to work on the clutch. Whereas, on most cars, there's usually some way of removing the gearbox on it's own, saves a lot of time and effort. Best approach might be to try to find someone who has done a clutch on your exact model and ask them how they did it?

As regards the cost of changing the clutch and slave cylinder - 800Euro sounds like a rough estimate i.e. 400 for parts + 400 labour. Maybe ring a Fiat main dealer and get a quote, then ask for a breakdown of parts and labour/how many hours. Now, knowing the cost of genuine parts, you can see if aftermarket cheaper parts are available and then armed with this info, try an independent Mechanic/garage for another quote.

One other thing to consider if doing a clutch, does your car have a dual mass flywheel (DMF), if so it might also have to be replaced, bumping up the cost.

Whether it's worth spending money on your car, I can't say. What is the general condition, mileage, etc.? Do you like the car? Do you think you'll get a decent amount of reliable use from it after changing the clutch? Maybe someone might take it 'as is', as a trade-in (they can fit a clutch much cheaper than it'll probably cost you to do it)?

Cheapest option:- make sure that it is indeed the clutch slave cylinder that has failed, remove the gearbox on it's own (if this is possible), fit a new slave cylinder, leave the original clutch alone if it was ok up to now and reassemble. (i.e. minimum work and parts, just enough to get the car back on the road). If you decide to tackle the job yourself, I'd say best to set aside a full day if you haven't done this type of job before and make sure you have the necessary tools, you'll need a suitable large socket + bar for the driveshaft nut (it might even be a deep and/or 12 point socket) and eTorx? sockets, best to have a good look at all the fasteners you'll have to undo before starting the job.

Al.
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Last edited by F123C; 4 Days Ago at 01:25.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #7
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Re: Clutch not disengaging

@barry181091

All sound advice..

Figure out what the car is worth to you..

With you lacking a jack.. this repair may be beyond you.. but feel free to ask more

Clutch info:

https://www.fiatdalys.lt/en/catalog/diagrams/181/3L/0/0/CC1.9/CMBDS/GDX/clutch

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Last edited by varesecrazy; 4 Days Ago at 08:24.
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Old 2 Days Ago   #8
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Ireland 
Re: Clutch not disengaging

Quote Originally Posted by F123C View Post
Hi Barry?,

If your car has indeed got the concentric clutch slave cylinder, then this is situated inside the bellhousing and any fluid leaking from it will flow downwards and find it's way out at the bottom of the bellhousing, close to the end of the engine sump. It shouldn't really get on or affect your starter motor unless it's been splashed around a lot.
If you try feeling brake fluid between your fingers, it'll feel less oily than engine or gearbox oil, plus it should still be relatively clear, same as new brake fluid, unlike engine oil which goes black fairly quickly (especially on a diesel).
You don't need a jack to do a quick check on this -just lie on the ground, reach in and feel whatever is leaking. (or park with 2 wheels on a kerb, to raise one side of the car and slide underneath).

I've got a 2008, petrol,1.4 90hp Bravo.
There's only 14,000 miles on mine (I usually use another car) so have only carried out servicing and a timing belt change.

Maybe your 1.6 Multijet is the same as the 1.9 as regards the clutch?

The official Fiat manuals seem to go in for too much removal of items when doing repairs - on my car (1.4 petrol), they say the engine and gearbox have to be removed as one unit, then split to work on the clutch. Whereas, on most cars, there's usually some way of removing the gearbox on it's own, saves a lot of time and effort. Best approach might be to try to find someone who has done a clutch on your exact model and ask them how they did it?

As regards the cost of changing the clutch and slave cylinder - 800Euro sounds like a rough estimate i.e. 400 for parts + 400 labour. Maybe ring a Fiat main dealer and get a quote, then ask for a breakdown of parts and labour/how many hours. Now, knowing the cost of genuine parts, you can see if aftermarket cheaper parts are available and then armed with this info, try an independent Mechanic/garage for another quote.

One other thing to consider if doing a clutch, does your car have a dual mass flywheel (DMF), if so it might also have to be replaced, bumping up the cost.

Whether it's worth spending money on your car, I can't say. What is the general condition, mileage, etc.? Do you like the car? Do you think you'll get a decent amount of reliable use from it after changing the clutch? Maybe someone might take it 'as is', as a trade-in (they can fit a clutch much cheaper than it'll probably cost you to do it)?

Cheapest option:- make sure that it is indeed the clutch slave cylinder that has failed, remove the gearbox on it's own (if this is possible), fit a new slave cylinder, leave the original clutch alone if it was ok up to now and reassemble. (i.e. minimum work and parts, just enough to get the car back on the road). If you decide to tackle the job yourself, I'd say best to set aside a full day if you haven't done this type of job before and make sure you have the necessary tools, you'll need a suitable large socket + bar for the driveshaft nut (it might even be a deep and/or 12 point socket) and eTorx? sockets, best to have a good look at all the fasteners you'll have to undo before starting the job.

Al.
Hi Al,

Great post, I didn't expect such a detailed response!

Yes, I filled it up again and saw where the drip was coming from, as you can see below. I then collected the leak with a bowl and it looks damn like brake fluid.



Yes, I have noticed that the eLearn for the 1.9 clutch removal is far too detailed. It almost takes the engine out!

It does indeed have a DMF, but am very wary to change that as the kit, DMF and slave cylinder would be around 550 alone (Based on third party online parts!).

Sorry, I never mentioned mileage. It has around 235k KM on it, so its on the very high side. Condition is okay, I have replaced a wing but even the replacement is not perfect (You cannot see in pictures below but you can make out tippex marks from scrap yard ), one of the quarter panels has a bad patched up scratch but the biggest issue (To me anyway!) is that the headliner inside is badly marked and scuffed as you can see below. This was due to the previous owner hauling gokarts around and I simply did not notice at the time of purchasing



One other issue it has right now is a coolant leak from the EGR cooler housing, but this is just a matter of a 30 euro plastic replacement. Apart from that I have replaced a turbo hose, aerial, broken coil spring, all discs and brakes, drop links, a leaky caliper and a cracked windscreen!

I don't really mind the car, its the headliner that really gets me. Now I cannot imagine much more could really go wrong after changing a clutch/CSC surely! I have been proved wrong before though

Here is a link to the actual car on Done Deal, just to give a rough idea of outer condition;

https://tinyurl.com/yarkmxb6

As to the fair comment from the other poster, I personally don't have tools but my father has it all. He has done everything on his cars before. He said we can certainly do it over a few days really. I just know its a big job so I want to be somewhat ok with my decision!
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