I've installed a LHD reverse lamp on my bravo to convert it to a twin clear lamp set up but I'm having a right mare trying to fit LED bulbs that actually work.

As with all modern cars the bravo canbus rejects LEDs due to their ultra low voltage pull so I hit "the bay" and bought a set of LED 382s for about £8 that were advertised as canbus error free. Sadly they were anything but and the only thing that illuminated was the "check rear fog bulb" warning light so I was back on eBay again and bought some more sturdier (and expensive) bulbs that looked more up to the job, sadly when they arrived they were no good either. They were more successful than the last ones being that when you switch it on it does shine brightly but has an annoying pulse on it, the "check rear fog light" still comes on and rather bizzarly when the light is switched off ithe bulb glows very dimly

This is costing me a small fortune so has anyone ever fitted a single pole 382 LED bulb to thier car that hasn't (A) thrown up an error message and (B) actually worked without pulsing. Any help would be greatly appreciated

I never used led lamps but I know that you must use a 2w resistor with the same ohm value of a conventional lamp. Doing this the error message will disappear.

But others have done it without using resistors. I thought these canbus bulbs had them built in?

gadge said:

I've installed a LHD reverse lamp on my bravo to convert it to a twin clear lamp set up but I'm having a right mare trying to fit LED bulbs that actually work.

As with all modern cars the bravo canbus rejects LEDs due to their ultra low voltage pull so I hit "the bay" and bought a set of LED 382s for about £8 that were advertised as canbus error free. Sadly they were anything but and the only thing that illuminated was the "check rear fog bulb" warning light so I was back on eBay again and bought some more sturdier (and expensive) bulbs that looked more up to the job, sadly when they arrived they were no good either. They were more successful than the last ones being that when you switch it on it does shine brightly but has an annoying pulse on it, the "check rear fog light" still comes on and rather bizzarly when the light is switched off ithe bulb glows very dimly

This is costing me a small fortune so has anyone ever fitted a single pole 382 LED bulb to thier car that hasn't (A) thrown up an error message and (B) actually worked without pulsing. Any help would be greatly appreciated

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Sorry but it has to be said, this modification makes the car illegal to use on the road. Funnily enough the reverse light is the only exterior light that does not need to be approved and "E" marked but the rear fog light and it's lamp must be approved and marked. There are NO approved LED replacement lamps. The clear reversing light reflector and lens is not suitable or approved for use as a fog light.

Robert G8RPI.

g8rpi said:

Sorry but it has to be said, this modification makes the car illegal to use on the road. Funnily enough the reverse light is the only exterior light that does not need to be approved and "E" marked but the rear fog light and it's lamp must be approved and marked. There are NO approved LED replacement lamps. The clear reversing light reflector and lens is not suitable or approved for use as a fog light.

Robert G8RPI.

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Thank you Robert it is useful to know for anyone who is thinking of doing these types of mods and I will stress that this mod is indeed ILLEGAL so be very careful if contemplating it. I am of course aware of this rule I’ve read plenty of posts on here from the law abiding motorists keen (very keen in some cases) to point out that should anyone use anything but the infamous “E marked” hardware on their vehicles will in fact be committing a criminal offence and should rightly so be hauled away and made to replace said hardware with the correct “E marked” part

I’m personally going to “risk it for a biscuit” and have fitted the clear reverse lamp to my car because not only does this rarly used item look great as a clear lamp but the issue of it being a non E marked item is unlikely to cause me any worries in the mean time and if it does (which, let’s face it probably won’t) I will just have to deal with it.

g8rpi said:

Sorry but it has to be said, this modification makes the car illegal to use on the road. Funnily enough the reverse light is the only exterior light that does not need to be approved and "E" marked but the rear fog light and it's lamp must be approved and marked. There are NO approved LED replacement lamps. The clear reversing light reflector and lens is not suitable or approved for use as a fog light.

Robert G8RPI.

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I was waiting for this...!!

gadge said:

Thank you Robert it is useful to know for anyone who is thinking of doing these types of mods and I will stress that this mod is indeed ILLEGAL so be very careful if contemplating it. I am of course aware of this rule I’ve read plenty of posts on here from the law abiding motorists keen (very keen in some cases) to point out that should anyone use anything but the infamous “E marked” hardware on their vehicles will in fact be committing a criminal offence and should rightly so be hauled away and made to replace said hardware with the correct “E marked” part

I’m personally going to “risk it for a biscuit” and have fitted the clear reverse lamp to my car because not only does this rarly used item look great as a clear lamp but the issue of it being a non E marked item is unlikely to cause me any worries in the mean time and if it does (which, let’s face it probably won’t) I will just have to deal with it.

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Well said..!!

Hi,
It's not a criminal offence and you won't be hauled away, but worst case you could be paying compensation to a victim of an accident for the rest of your working life if your insurer voids your policy. Highly unlikely to happen, but the consequences are very high if it does.
It's the drivers / owners choice but if you post it here please say that it's illegal so others who read it in the future can make an informed decision. There is also some liability on people giving "advice" on forums and possibly the forum officials if the advice results in someone commiting an illegal act. I know a group owner, admittedly in the USA, who was warned by regulators about users posting about illegal modifications.

Robert G8RPI.

g8rpi said:

Hi,
It's not a criminal offence and you won't be hauled away, but worst case you could be paying compensation to a victim of an accident for the rest of your working life if your insurer voids your policy. Highly unlikely to happen, but the consequences are very high if it does.
It's the drivers / owners choice but if you post it here please say that it's illegal so others who read it in the future can make an informed decision. There is also some liability on people giving "advice" on forums and possibly the forum officials if the advice results in someone commiting an illegal act. I know a group owner, admittedly in the USA, who was warned by regulators about users posting about illegal modifications.

Robert G8RPI.

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:nutter:

:

g8rpi said:

Hi,
It's not a criminal offence and you won't be hauled away, but worst case you could be paying compensation to a victim of an accident for the rest of your working life if your insurer voids your policy. Highly unlikely to happen, but the consequences are very high if it does.
It's the drivers / owners choice but if you post it here please say that it's illegal so others who read it in the future can make an informed decision. There is also some liability on people giving "advice" on forums and possibly the forum officials if the advice results in someone commiting an illegal act. I know a group owner, admittedly in the USA, who was warned by regulators about users posting about illegal modifications.

Robert G8RPI.

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I jest with you Robert because you are a well respected member and I do like you and I genuinely mean that and I will add that I actually 100% agree with you wholeheartedly. It is of course the owner or even the drivers responsibility and not of any mot guy to make sure that their car is legal and safe for use on the roads whether that be a serious issue or trivial. I’m certainly not disputing this at all and I do take road safety seriously but I am also human with a great amount of common sense.

The reason why I joke is that my original question was “what LED bulbs are other people using” not “whats the law regarding LED lights on cars” so was baffled why I was getting law advice? .

I’ve been in this forum for 14 years now and seen many times how an innocent question can quickly turn bad and it’s usually down to someone quoting a line from the law book and in most cases the advisor dispensing the quote (backed up with links saved in their computer for just that occasion) isn’t doing it for a genuine concern for the OPs bank balance or wellbeing but because they just want to sound clever and all that ends up happening is that the OP ends up feeling humiliated which prevents him/her from ever asking or contributing anything again which I think is sad - I’m not at all saying that was your intention Robert im just saying thanks but I got covered

Hi,
No offence taken from you. I was not expecting a response, but as I'm sure you have noticed I do think we need to make the legal situation clear for future readers of the thread.
On the lamp failure warning problem, I can't recommend LEDs that will work because don't use them. However I know how it works so can make some suggestions. The body ECU monitors the current drawn by the lamp and if it is too low it indicates a fault. A typical rear light is a 382 21W 12V so draws 1.75A (21/12) there is a tolerance on the fail limit but it must be less than this. We need to make sure the current draw of the LED and any parallel resistor is higher than this limit. The limit is likely to be around 1A which would be 12W and 12 ohms. A 12 or 15 ohm (15 is more common) resistor would be a good staaarting point. Obviousy it needs to have a power rating of at least 12W I'd use a 25W metal clad like this http://uk.farnell.com/cgs-te-connectivity/ths2515rj/resistor-al-clad-25w-15r-5/dp/1259415 (can be bought for less) The reason for 25W is that it needs to be on a heatsink to do 25W so on a thin steel panel it will get quite warm even at 10-12W.
External resistors are better than "CANBUS" LEDs because whatever you use has to dissipate at least 12W and if it's in the LED it will be running hotter and the LED will have a shorter life. Always better to keep the heat away from the active components.

Robert G8RPI.

Thank you very much Robert this is actually very useful! I will digest this and do some research later. Much appreciated

I am fascinated by the idea because my reversing light is so dim as to be near useless and it only shows on one side anyway. I have considered a left hand drive reversing light to replace the rfl but would then have to organise some rear fogs. I have no idea what running two reverse lights would do to the can bus. I was thinking of then cutting the back bumper and fitting two rear fogs probably the original and a left hand drive one. Is it worth the faff?

The Panda Nut said:

I am fascinated by the idea because my reversing light is so dim as to be near useless and it only shows on one side anyway. I have considered a left hand drive reversing light to replace the rfl but would then have to organise some rear fogs. I have no idea what running two reverse lights would do to the can bus. I was thinking of then cutting the back bumper and fitting two rear fogs probably the original and a left hand drive one. Is it worth the faff?

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Adding extra lights in parallel will increase the load on the Body Computer ouputs. This might cause them to shut down or possibly even be damaged. Best solution is to use a relay with the coil connected to the existing light and a new fused feed (one feed could be used for both fog and reverse lights).
Use a small relay e.g. 5A contacts, to reduce the load on the BC. Smaller relays have lower coil current.

Robert G8RPI.

Aye aye sounds like the right way to go. I suppose any decent looking RFL's that will fit and look in place would resolve that issue if the originals wont fit. I do know there is a lot more lamp behind the bumper than might be expected. Thanks for the pointer.

Ok I’m gonna bring my story to an end here. So after two attempts at fitting LEDs (both of which ended in failure) I bought a pair of tinted red normal 382 incandescent bulbs. This was a last ditch attempt as i originally discounted them because some reviewers had stated that they weren’t very bright and gave more of a pink glow rather than a bright red light. I had nothing to lose so I duly fitted one in and to my surprise I have a lovely bright red rear fog lamp it’s not as sharp as an LED but a lot brighter than a standard 5w 380 side light. I had a look at it this morning in the dark and its brightness is equivalent to driving with a brake light on. Why oh why didn’t I just st do that in the first place I’ll never know but all sorted now :thumbup:

I did something similar but I didn't use any leds.
I just replaced the rear fog light placing it in the blank spot in the main rear lights. So I have two white reverse lights.

ovarb said:

I did something similar but I didn't use any leds.
I just replaced the rear fog light placing it in the blank spot in the main rear lights. So I have two white reverse lights.

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How did you do that?

Just look at the pictures. But if you disassemble the rear light you will understand better.
picture1- dual white reverse light
picture2- red fog light ON and lights ON
picture3- rear light assembly viewed from back side (notice an extra wire for the fog light bulb)
picture4- rear lights ON (as it come from factory)
picture5- rear lights ON and fog light ON (just add a new connection that was missing in the plastic; even the bulb is original one)
Hope I could be of some help.
Don't forget to change the connection from the original bumper place to the upper rear lights.