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Old 14-11-2017   #16
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Re: Fiat Bravo Problems wit first starting the engine

Quote Originally Posted by MikeG20 View Post
Fuel pump?
i tested that as well.
Tested, replaced etc
Not the problem.
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Old 18-11-2017   #17
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Re: Fiat Bravo Problems wit first starting the engine

I know you mentioned you replaced temperature sensors, but just to be sure. There are two MAP sensors, one at the turbo and one at the intake on the right side. Only the second one has the temperature sensor inside. It is page 58 (at turbo) and 55 (right side) in the Fiat_NuovaBravo_1.4TjetEngine.pdf.

BOSCH 0 261 230 042 is original sensor, later replaced by 0261230302, which is equivalent of F01C600085, which is almost 50% cheaper.
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Old 18-11-2017   #18
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Re: Fiat Bravo Problems wit first starting the engine

Quote Originally Posted by Perfezionista View Post
I know you mentioned you replaced temperature sensors, but just to be sure. There are two MAP sensors, one at the turbo and one at the intake on the right side. Only the second one has the temperature sensor inside. It is page 58 (at turbo) and 55 (right side) in the Fiat_NuovaBravo_1.4TjetEngine.pdf.

BOSCH 0 261 230 042 is original sensor, later replaced by 0261230302, which is equivalent of F01C600085, which is almost 50% cheaper.
Yep, i know, replaced them as well, just to make sure, even tho they can easily be rad and interpreted as working on MES
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Old 18-12-2017   #19
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Re: Fiat Bravo Problems wit first starting the engine

Quote Originally Posted by Perfezionista View Post
Very interesting. What are your DTV and FRA values for LPG and petrol?

So yesterday i was out at the car playing with the interfaces (set the petrol to LPG changeover a little lower now at 45 degrees vs 55 degrees as i had it in the summer)

Sadly I cannot give you the DTV /FRA values, because for some reason my elm is not working (might be the drivers+windows10 combo).

What i can tell you is what i saw using Torque (although not great):
-STFT was at around 3% on petrol and lpg both at idle and when cruising
-O2 correction (what i assumed was some sort of LTFT) was also around 3% in all cases.

I made sure it was in Closed Loop.
The STF did vary when changing over.. but i assume that is because some extra fuel is being delivered for a few seconds, until the petrol wetting the intake walls evaporates.


So in my opinion the LPG was set correctly.

Now tell me if i have this wrong:
-i lowered the Iddle LPG and to get it at ~+10%STFT (basically a little lean until the ECU compensates).. this should make it pump 10% more petrol on cold starts...until it goes into closed loop.
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Old 18-12-2017   #20
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Re: Fiat Bravo Problems wit first starting the engine

Another quick update.. it's been -1 degrees today... so after more that 24 hours since i last started the car.
Turned the key.. left it for 3-4 seconds to pressurize the system, then crank, it cought and started on the engines..send revolution.... really fast.

BUT i did also put in new petrol .... so probably a combined effort

I will come back in 3-5 days ... or whenever it goes bad again
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Old 25-12-2017   #21
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Re: Fiat Bravo Problems wit first starting the engine

Interesting. I always have 1/2-3/4 tank level od petrol, that is cca 30-40 litres. Every month i put cca 10 litres of fresh 100 octane petrol.
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Old 01-08-2019   #22
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Re: Fiat Bravo Problems wit first starting the engine

Hi
I know I'm writing in an old thread, but I didn't saw a solution for the problem and ... here I am

I had absolutely the same problem with Fiat Bravo MK2 1,4 with LPG

The first start of the engine was awful (the car started after 3-9 retries ... )

A few days ago I finally found a solution - to delete the adaptations on the ECU

According to the worker in the service shop, if the adaptation is more than 20% far from the genuine value, the ECU cannot revert the adaptation by itself, and the problem persists until the adaptation is deleted.

In my case, after the adaptation was deleted, I drove 200 km on gasoline to allow the ECU to make a proper adaptation. After this, the car is starting without any issue (like a new car)

The last step is to make new settings on the LPG system (because the old settings were based in the bad adaptation) - this was also recommended by the worker in the service shop.
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Old 02-08-2019   #23
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Re: Fiat Bravo Problems wit first starting the engine

Quote Originally Posted by krasykp View Post
Hi
I know I'm writing in an old thread, but I didn't saw a solution for the problem and ... here I am

I had absolutely the same problem with Fiat Bravo MK2 1,4 with LPG

The first start of the engine was awful (the car started after 3-9 retries ... )

A few days ago I finally found a solution - to delete the adaptations on the ECU

According to the worker in the service shop, if the adaptation is more than 20% far from the genuine value, the ECU cannot revert the adaptation by itself, and the problem persists until the adaptation is deleted.

In my case, after the adaptation was deleted, I drove 200 km on gasoline to allow the ECU to make a proper adaptation. After this, the car is starting without any issue (like a new car)

The last step is to make new settings on the LPG system (because the old settings were based in the bad adaptation) - this was also recommended by the worker in the service shop.

That meas your LPG system was improperly calibrated.

On my car the adaptive parameters always stay +/-3% (5% up to 5% is acceptable) .


Still have the cold start problem with petrol that sits too long in the tank.
After i consume that, and add new petrol. there is no problem.
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Old 02-08-2019   #24
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Re: Fiat Bravo Problems wit first starting the engine

Quote Originally Posted by aurick86 View Post
That meas your LPG system was improperly calibrated.

On my car the adaptive parameters always stay +/-3% (5% up to 5% is acceptable) .


Still have the cold start problem with petrol that sits too long in the tank.
After i consume that, and add new petrol. there is no problem.

In my case, when the LPG system was installed, they started automatical settings, and everything was OK. in one month I went to the service center to check the settings (our service shops recommends one month after the new LPG system is installed to make new settings on the LPG system). They checked the settings and manually manipulated (not more +/- 5%), and from this moment the problem came up ... I changed the spark plugs, check the cables, errors, temperature sensor ... nothing.

The procedure with the adaptation fixed the problem. From this moment I did not add more fuel. With the fuel that I had the problem, after the procedure, the car is starting perfectly.

About the percentage - I don't know if the +/- 3% is acceptable, but if in some case (for example bad LPG fuel) the parameters are not OK, and the car ECU are trying to fix the problem with adaptation, and there is no result, maybe the injection time will pass 20% more or less ... I'm guessing now ...

In my case, the service worker was familiar with the issue, he explained to me this, and after the adaptation was deleted, the first cold start is OK.

If you have a problem and can delete the adaptation - you can try. The procedure is not expensive.

Unfortunately, I did not manage to find instructions on how to delete adaptations by myself (there is a lot of cheap cables for Autocom, multiecuscan, ...)
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Old 11-08-2019   #25
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Quote Originally Posted by krasykp View Post
Hi
I know I'm writing in an old thread, but I didn't saw a solution for the problem and ... here I am

I had absolutely the same problem with Fiat Bravo MK2 1,4 with LPG

The first start of the engine was awful (the car started after 3-9 retries ... )

A few days ago I finally found a solution - to delete the adaptations on the ECU

According to the worker in the service shop, if the adaptation is more than 20% far from the genuine value, the ECU cannot revert the adaptation by itself, and the problem persists until the adaptation is deleted.

In my case, after the adaptation was deleted, I drove 200 km on gasoline to allow the ECU to make a proper adaptation. After this, the car is starting without any issue (like a new car)

The last step is to make new settings on the LPG system (because the old settings were based in the bad adaptation) - this was also recommended by the worker in the service shop.
Sorry, maybe its a silly question, but who can delete those adaptations: someone with a Fiat interface or the guys that installed the LPG on the car. I have the same problem with a Bravo 1.4 90hp with LPG.
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Old 12-08-2019   #26
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Re: Fiat Bravo Problems wit first starting the engine

Quote Originally Posted by hAdrian25 View Post
Sorry, maybe its a silly question, but who can delete those adaptations: someone with a Fiat interface or the guys that installed the LPG on the car. I have the same problem with a Bravo 1.4 90hp with LPG.
Hi there,
the adaptations can be deleted from someone with Fiat interface.

The guys that install LPG, in general, do not have the proper interface and knowledge to do this operation.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #27
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Re: Fiat Bravo Problems wit first starting the engine

Dear All,
I have the same problem with two T-Jets in the family.
However, our cars are non LPG ones, just the plain petrol T-Jets.
One is the 150hp and the other one is 120hp.
Has anybody ever found solution for the hard starting?
It is related to how long the car settles. If the engine is off for overnight and the outside temp is below 15°C, then next morning the hard starting is highly possible.
Occassionally the ignition failure error code comes on, but that is not the root cause. Spark plugs were changed, timing sensor was changed, oil separator box was changed - no improvement.
Anybody ever experienced such?
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Old 5 Days Ago   #28
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Re: Fiat Bravo Problems wit first starting the engine

FIY:
problem continues... it's the period when more and more t-jets have the issue.
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