OK everyone, this is my first post here and I honestly wish it was far simpler and more pleasant than having to comment on a review filled with ludicrous claims.
Yes, it's about the claim made by the Greek branch of Auto Motor und Sport magazine that the Fiat Bravo 1.4 90bhp doesn't have brakes big enough for the job. I understand it has been mentioned in another post in these forums, but I was one of the people who did some further research on this whole issue, so perhaps an update is due.
First of all, they showed brakes that belonged to a Toyota Corolla AE92. This is something we all know.
Second, they claimed that the brakes overheated and stopped working because of their small size. Even when the brakes DO overheat, this (a) does NOT happen because they're small - in fact, smaller diameter brakes can cool off faster if they have a good air stream around them provided by a large wheel rim, (b) you don't lose the brakes completely, (c) it NEVER happens on the third attempt to brake from 60 mph to 0.
Third, Auto Motor und Sport in Greece has gone on a libelous campaign against the Marea 1.6 in 1996 - they claimed the test cars were "chipped", because their output was 17bhp higher than the one announced by the manufacturer. Of course, it's preposterous to claim that just by "chipping" a 1.6-litre engine you can get 17bhp more; you need to change camshafts, inlet, exhaust, reprogram the engine's control unit and then HOPE to get that extra power. Fiat took them to court, they WON, but now AMS claims it was its side that won the trial. Lies, lies, lies...
Fourth, and most important: The test and crashed supposedly happened on the runway of the military airfield of Lamia (LG Lamia), which has a runway 1100 metres long, 50 metres wide and lots of space to its left, to its right, to its front and its behind. It supposedly happened on the night of October 18th, 2007. But the airfield's officers and their supervising authority, the Hellenic Air Force General Staff, flatly refuse to confirm the magazine's claims. The General Staff says they don't know a thing about it, the airfield's officers deny this incident ever happened.
Fifth: The magazine claims that the brakes failed and so the car ran all the way along the runway, went through at least 100 metres of dirt and rocks and maintained enough speed to crash through a fence and then cross a nearby road, finally stopping at a pile of dirt and rocks. Does this claim hold any water? Well, let's see: to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph (actually, 62 since we're talking about 100 km/h) in a car like this particular version of the Bravo, you need approximatly 350 metres. You hit the brakes. You realize you're not stopping. What do you do? Well, let's suppose you're an utter novice of a car tester and panic completely, so you just don't do a thing. The car will drop to approximately 20 mph on its own, merely due to the friction between its rubberwear and the asphalt in about 400 metres. That ought to be slow enough for you to stop it by using the handbrake or switching to a much lower gear. Do the math: 350 + 400 = 750 < 1100. So, the car doesn't exit the runway and doesn't crash through the fence. This is the worst-case scenario. By downshifting and using the handbrake or by doing a handbrake turn, you can reduce the braking distance drastically. So, the narration given by AMS is entirely illogical.
Sixth: They said that this version of the Bravo is sold in Greece with brakes 30% smaller than those of its European counterparts. Well, let's take it from the beginning, shall we? First, the Brakes of the Bravo 1.4 90 bhp as sold in Greece are THE SAME as those of the Bravo 1.4 90 bhp as sold EVERYWHERE in Europe. Thankfully, not all of us are as naive and ignorant as the infamous Mr. Triantafyllis, publisher of the magazine, hopes. Second, there's the internet and we can check facts and figures. Third, the brakes of the Bravo 1.4 90 bhp are smaller by about 15% to 20% (depending on whether you compare brake diameter or volume) than those of the 150 T-Jet. So, the magazine's claims are proven false. Fourth, the magazine's chain letter campaign is actually SPAM (a clear violation of the European Parliament Directive 2002/58/EC; look it up on the internet) and, thus, illegal.
Seventh: The magazine's articles were obviously written by people who had no grasp of a car's technical workings. In fact, I suspect, by the writing style, syntax, spelling and usage of vocabulary alone, that one of the editors must be one of the most infamous pro-VAG trolls in Greek automotive forums, a person that has been perma-banned about two hundred times since the year 2000.
Eighth: The Greek car tuning magazine "Power Techniques" disproved the theories of AMS by publishing a PROPER (even measuring brake temperatures) brake test in its February 2008 issue. Naturally, the Bravo (both the 150 T-Jet and the lowly 90 bhp) performed very, VERY well. Furthermore, the aforementioned magazine, along with the Greek editions of Car and EVO, published extensive technical features explaining how brakes REALLY work and why the stuff written by AMS was nonsense.
Ninth: How responsible is a car magazine whose reviewers, after having crashed a car that suffered (let's say we believe them) a total brake failure, DRIVE it on public roads all the way to the nearby Fiat dealership? And here they are, claiming that THEY are the ONLY car journalists in Greece who don't get bribed by Fiat (because they even wrote such a libel against their colleagues, but they pulled it from their website after they were duly ridiculed even by the stray dogs of the smallest village) and don't "cover up" its dangerous cars' problems.
Tenth: Later on, when Fiat recalled a number of cars because of problems with the brake hoses, AMS claimed that THIS was the cause of the problem, moving from its original position about the "brakes not being big enough" (perhaps no one wanted to buy Brake Enhancement Pills, I guess). But the car they crashed wasn't part of the faulty batch. In fact, it was built in the summer, when the brake hose problem afflicted ONLY cars built from October 11 to mid-November. Let's say the crashed Bravo was built on October 11. According to AMS, it was driven in August and September by other Greek magazines, thoroughly reviewed, WITHOUT having been built yet!!! Then, it was built on October 11th, travelled from Italy to Greece, went through customs, got registered, insured, inspected, prepared for reviewing, driven AGAIN by other magazines and then, on October 18th, was crashed by the crew of AMS.
So, what happened? How did the Bravo end up having hit the dirt? I've no idea. To me, it looks like they set it all up to look like an accident. But the direction of this movie was more Ed Wood than Oliver Stone...
And all this because AMS Greece (and its subsidiaries) didn't get the ads they wanted from Fiat Group Auto Hellas...
On another note, VW, Audi and their subsequent subsidiaries "miraculously" started selling a lot better after, in the very late '80s, AMS came to Greece... And please note that VAG should be the FIRST car manufacturer to punish such practices, because they suffered from a libelous campaign of CBS' TV show "60 Minutes", which rigged some Audi 5000s of the US market, so that they would claim the car would accelerate by itself. Even though Audi took them to court and won, proving they LIED, the damage was done and no REAL retraction was made.
OK, I know this is super-long for a first post. In case you're interested, I'm an industrial engineer with an MSc in Production Systems. I hope I helped.
Yes, it's about the claim made by the Greek branch of Auto Motor und Sport magazine that the Fiat Bravo 1.4 90bhp doesn't have brakes big enough for the job. I understand it has been mentioned in another post in these forums, but I was one of the people who did some further research on this whole issue, so perhaps an update is due.
First of all, they showed brakes that belonged to a Toyota Corolla AE92. This is something we all know.
Second, they claimed that the brakes overheated and stopped working because of their small size. Even when the brakes DO overheat, this (a) does NOT happen because they're small - in fact, smaller diameter brakes can cool off faster if they have a good air stream around them provided by a large wheel rim, (b) you don't lose the brakes completely, (c) it NEVER happens on the third attempt to brake from 60 mph to 0.
Third, Auto Motor und Sport in Greece has gone on a libelous campaign against the Marea 1.6 in 1996 - they claimed the test cars were "chipped", because their output was 17bhp higher than the one announced by the manufacturer. Of course, it's preposterous to claim that just by "chipping" a 1.6-litre engine you can get 17bhp more; you need to change camshafts, inlet, exhaust, reprogram the engine's control unit and then HOPE to get that extra power. Fiat took them to court, they WON, but now AMS claims it was its side that won the trial. Lies, lies, lies...
Fourth, and most important: The test and crashed supposedly happened on the runway of the military airfield of Lamia (LG Lamia), which has a runway 1100 metres long, 50 metres wide and lots of space to its left, to its right, to its front and its behind. It supposedly happened on the night of October 18th, 2007. But the airfield's officers and their supervising authority, the Hellenic Air Force General Staff, flatly refuse to confirm the magazine's claims. The General Staff says they don't know a thing about it, the airfield's officers deny this incident ever happened.
Fifth: The magazine claims that the brakes failed and so the car ran all the way along the runway, went through at least 100 metres of dirt and rocks and maintained enough speed to crash through a fence and then cross a nearby road, finally stopping at a pile of dirt and rocks. Does this claim hold any water? Well, let's see: to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph (actually, 62 since we're talking about 100 km/h) in a car like this particular version of the Bravo, you need approximatly 350 metres. You hit the brakes. You realize you're not stopping. What do you do? Well, let's suppose you're an utter novice of a car tester and panic completely, so you just don't do a thing. The car will drop to approximately 20 mph on its own, merely due to the friction between its rubberwear and the asphalt in about 400 metres. That ought to be slow enough for you to stop it by using the handbrake or switching to a much lower gear. Do the math: 350 + 400 = 750 < 1100. So, the car doesn't exit the runway and doesn't crash through the fence. This is the worst-case scenario. By downshifting and using the handbrake or by doing a handbrake turn, you can reduce the braking distance drastically. So, the narration given by AMS is entirely illogical.
Sixth: They said that this version of the Bravo is sold in Greece with brakes 30% smaller than those of its European counterparts. Well, let's take it from the beginning, shall we? First, the Brakes of the Bravo 1.4 90 bhp as sold in Greece are THE SAME as those of the Bravo 1.4 90 bhp as sold EVERYWHERE in Europe. Thankfully, not all of us are as naive and ignorant as the infamous Mr. Triantafyllis, publisher of the magazine, hopes. Second, there's the internet and we can check facts and figures. Third, the brakes of the Bravo 1.4 90 bhp are smaller by about 15% to 20% (depending on whether you compare brake diameter or volume) than those of the 150 T-Jet. So, the magazine's claims are proven false. Fourth, the magazine's chain letter campaign is actually SPAM (a clear violation of the European Parliament Directive 2002/58/EC; look it up on the internet) and, thus, illegal.
Seventh: The magazine's articles were obviously written by people who had no grasp of a car's technical workings. In fact, I suspect, by the writing style, syntax, spelling and usage of vocabulary alone, that one of the editors must be one of the most infamous pro-VAG trolls in Greek automotive forums, a person that has been perma-banned about two hundred times since the year 2000.
Eighth: The Greek car tuning magazine "Power Techniques" disproved the theories of AMS by publishing a PROPER (even measuring brake temperatures) brake test in its February 2008 issue. Naturally, the Bravo (both the 150 T-Jet and the lowly 90 bhp) performed very, VERY well. Furthermore, the aforementioned magazine, along with the Greek editions of Car and EVO, published extensive technical features explaining how brakes REALLY work and why the stuff written by AMS was nonsense.
Ninth: How responsible is a car magazine whose reviewers, after having crashed a car that suffered (let's say we believe them) a total brake failure, DRIVE it on public roads all the way to the nearby Fiat dealership? And here they are, claiming that THEY are the ONLY car journalists in Greece who don't get bribed by Fiat (because they even wrote such a libel against their colleagues, but they pulled it from their website after they were duly ridiculed even by the stray dogs of the smallest village) and don't "cover up" its dangerous cars' problems.
Tenth: Later on, when Fiat recalled a number of cars because of problems with the brake hoses, AMS claimed that THIS was the cause of the problem, moving from its original position about the "brakes not being big enough" (perhaps no one wanted to buy Brake Enhancement Pills, I guess). But the car they crashed wasn't part of the faulty batch. In fact, it was built in the summer, when the brake hose problem afflicted ONLY cars built from October 11 to mid-November. Let's say the crashed Bravo was built on October 11. According to AMS, it was driven in August and September by other Greek magazines, thoroughly reviewed, WITHOUT having been built yet!!! Then, it was built on October 11th, travelled from Italy to Greece, went through customs, got registered, insured, inspected, prepared for reviewing, driven AGAIN by other magazines and then, on October 18th, was crashed by the crew of AMS.
So, what happened? How did the Bravo end up having hit the dirt? I've no idea. To me, it looks like they set it all up to look like an accident. But the direction of this movie was more Ed Wood than Oliver Stone...
And all this because AMS Greece (and its subsidiaries) didn't get the ads they wanted from Fiat Group Auto Hellas...
On another note, VW, Audi and their subsequent subsidiaries "miraculously" started selling a lot better after, in the very late '80s, AMS came to Greece... And please note that VAG should be the FIRST car manufacturer to punish such practices, because they suffered from a libelous campaign of CBS' TV show "60 Minutes", which rigged some Audi 5000s of the US market, so that they would claim the car would accelerate by itself. Even though Audi took them to court and won, proving they LIED, the damage was done and no REAL retraction was made.
OK, I know this is super-long for a first post. In case you're interested, I'm an industrial engineer with an MSc in Production Systems. I hope I helped.
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the reporters of AMS are useless pieces of s..t!
