Hi there,

Just spent a most enjoyable morning with GSR Peter at Red Dot, who remapped our Bravo. The results are simply stunning as can be seen from the graphs.

before
157.5 bhp / 218 ft-lb / 295nm

after
195.2 bhp / 279 ft-lb / 377nm

These figures will most likely increase slightly as the car does more miles.
It's only done 2000 from new at the moment.

Peter is a very friendly chap who is happy to answer any questions you might have and is clearly very passionate about Fiat cars and the work he does with them.

So it's a definate 100% to Pete and the guys at Red Dot.

So, Whats next? Well maybe induction, exhaust, who knows what's in the pipeline? But for now, I'm simply enjoying my remap. It's like discovering the car all over again.

what sort of 0-60 time the car car do?
i getting my mjet soon, still not sure whatever i should re-map it or not.

The Fiat brochure quotes a flat 9 seconds standard 0 - 62 and a kerb weight of 1360Kg.

------------------weight of car in kilogrammes
0-60 time = ---------------------------
-------------------maximum bhp of car * 0.9

OK, it's not a precise science, but it does work (most of the time)

So, 1360kg / 195.2bhp * 0.9 = 6.26

All academic of course because a diesel is really all about 30-70 and in-gear times, both of which are slashed dramatically after the remap.

Purely as a comparison, the Vauxhall Astra 888 CDTi Sport Hatch, which has the same Fiat-sourced 150bhp 16v Multijet engine, came
from the factory with a switchable remap to 200bhp by Thurlby Motors and has a kerb Weight of circa 1343 kg.
It was officially timed by Autocar with these real-world results :

0-30 2.84
0-60 6.89
0-100 17.64

Only 100 were made and the price was £18,995, so the Bravo+remap looks to be quite a bargain.

I say DO IT, it completely transforms the car, and I'm happy to report no diesel smoking or clutch slip, and better fuel economy to boot

Thats impressive, and also impressive is the fact it had 157 before you started! Is that at the wheels?

PROV said:

Thats impressive, and also impressive is the fact it had 157 before you started! Is that at the wheels?

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yes.

Dave_R said:

yes.

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Cheers for posting this up with the graphs Dave Very interesting.

I was wondering what the benefits of mapping the 150 Mjet Bravo would be. I had my GPS Mjet mapped by Red Dot in January and its performance is fantastic and I'm always amazed by it's in gear performance. On the very same RR my GP read 135bhp and 185lbs/ft and post remap 175bhp and 263lbs/ft. Not sure why the torque gains are more with mine (?) but bhp seems similar. I do have the extra smoke problem out the back occasionally (only when really pushed) but by sounds of it yours is free of this problem which is great!

As you say this type of power can't be properly measured by 0-60 times but a remap will knock about 2 seconds off on average so those figures should be about right. (Mine showing about 7.5)

Hope you continue to enjoy your new found fun and let us know how you get on.

How driveable is it with all that power?

I'd be tempted but will I be able to use it? Am I going to be on TC all the time? Is that with the standard hardware i.e. induction/exhaust/filter?

:worship:

Hellcat said:

How driveable is it with all that power?

I'd be tempted but will I be able to use it? Am I going to be on TC all the time? Is that with the standard hardware i.e. induction/exhaust/filter?

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The drive is buttery smooth, in 4th/5th/6th gears the acceleration is devastating but not like a racing car, think more like a large engined merc or BMW...
very smooth, v. quick and quiet. The only sound you really hear is the roar from the tyres. It's all very useable especially on the motorway, where overtaking is a cinch. No need to come out of 6th.....

TC only comes on if you nail it hard in 1st or 2nd gears, should you be that way inclined.

And oh yes, these figures are for just the remap. Eveything else is bog standard. Once it's fully run in it's expected to just pass the magic 200bhp.

Dave_R said:

The drive is buttery smooth, in 4th/5th/6th gears the acceleration is devastating but not like a racing car, think more like a large engined merc or BMW...
very smooth, v. quick and quiet. The only sound you really hear is the roar from the tyres. It's all very useable especially on the motorway, where overtaking is a cinch. No need to come out of 6th.....

TC only comes on if you nail it hard in 1st or 2nd gears, should you be that way inclined.

And oh yes, these figures are for just the remap. Eveything else is bog standard. Once it's fully run in it's expected to just pass the magic 200bhp.

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I have already made up my mind to map my new 150 sport JTDm when I get it . It was a decision I made before I ordered one.
I looked at the before and after figures and factered in the cost with my purchase price.
My Current car, a 2.4 JTD Alfa 156 was mapped to 195 bhp (from 140bhp) and the torque figures for the new Fiat are identical to the Alfa.
It took about 6 months for the clutch to start slipping but was fine after having it changed to an uprated one.
Quiz.

Quiz said:

It took about 6 months for the clutch to start slipping but was fine after having it changed to an uprated one.
Quiz.

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That's really boosted my confidence in remapping

Yeah, especially as I doubt one will be available for the Bravo for a while...

Can anyone comment on whether there is any difference between a tuning box and a remap? Does a tuning box (I'm looking at the Spider from diesel tuner systems ltd - http://www.dieseltuning.co.uk/diesel_tuning/spider.html ) act the same way as a re-map or is it more simplistic (they are quoting similar power gains)?

I hear what folk have said about remaps not voiding warrantees, but I'd feel more comfortable with something easily removable for when the car visits the dealer!

richstrat said:

Yeah, especially as I doubt one will be available for the Bravo for a while...

Can anyone comment on whether there is any difference between a tuning box and a remap? Does a tuning box (I'm looking at the Spider from diesel tuner systems ltd - http://www.dieseltuning.co.uk/diesel_tuning/spider.html ) act the same way as a re-map or is it more simplistic (they are quoting similar power gains)?

I hear what folk have said about remaps not voiding warrantees, but I'd feel more comfortable with something easily removable for when the car visits the dealer!

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This has been talked to death in the GP section. Tuning boxes are alot simpiler as they just intercept the standard map and boost values with no change to anything else in the ECU such as smoke limiter, boost setting etc. This is why the gains are lower. Only thing about the tunit boxes is you can turn it off and remove it for the dealer etc.

Dave_R said:

yes.

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Sorry to correct you Dave.

The power is on the flywheel and the torque is on the wheels.

Oldschool said:

Sorry to correct you Dave.

The power is on the flywheel and the torque is on the wheels.

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LOL :idea: I stand corrected, after all, you are the expert :worship:

Still thoroughly enjoying it of course, thanks for your time on Saturday, worth every penny IMHO.

Dave_R said:

LOL :idea: I stand corrected, after all, you are the expert :worship:

Still thoroughly enjoying it of course, thanks for your time on Saturday, worth every penny IMHO.

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The 377Nm of torque (which are on the wheels) relate to a close to 450Nm on the flywheel.

Glad that you are enjoying it. And I look forward to the next mod.

richstrat said:

I hear what folk have said about remaps not voiding warrantees, but I'd feel more comfortable with something easily removable for when the car visits the dealer!

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The remap would void the warrantee if they could tell you have had it done. But they can't. They may suspect because of the power increase if they drive it, but they can not be sure unless you tell them.
That is why I think the mapping is better than a tuning box or chip. If you get stopped by the police or are involved in an accident, a box will be evident and your insurance void if you have not informed them.
Quiz.

Quiz said:

That is why I think the mapping is better than a tuning box or chip. If you get stopped by the police or are involved in an accident, a box will be evident and your insurance void if you have not informed them.
Quiz.

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But insurance companies are very wise to remaps and can interrogate the ECU if they suspect a remap - the error codes would easily give it away. If, hypothetically, you had not declared your remap to your insurers (not that I would encourage that), could you remove the remap? It's a 30 second job to remove a tuning box...

richstrat said:

But insurance companies are very wise to remaps and can interrogate the ECU if they suspect a remap - the error codes would easily give it away. If, hypothetically, you had not declared your remap to your insurers (not that I would encourage that), could you remove the remap? It's a 30 second job to remove a tuning box...

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I might be wrong, but unless the claims is up to a set amount, dont think the insurance will bother to check it as it will cost them thousands to prove whatever the ecu been touched.
But again, if you modify your vehicle without telling your insurance company, you are running the risk by your policy might get void, doesn't matter a small thing like an aftermarket light bulb or an engine replacement, so good luck!!

richstrat said:

But insurance companies are very wise to remaps and can interrogate the ECU if they suspect a remap - the error codes would easily give it away. If, hypothetically, you had not declared your remap to your insurers (not that I would encourage that), could you remove the remap? It's a 30 second job to remove a tuning box...

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If it is done correctly there aren't any error codes coming up. Tuning box is more likely to show up in the data log.