Only the normal panda 1.2 basic active is available in egypt and my palio is way better than a panda come on peeps i don't want something away from the grande punto or the bravo!

Its either the Grande punto or the New Bravo so which is better for these conditions and why?

Can you not get diesel out there?. Get a Diesel Grande Punto .

I'd go for a Hummer for that terrain!

ChrisUK said:

Can you not get diesel out there?. Get a Diesel Grande Punto .

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Be much less sensitive to fuel issues, well it should be anyhow.

The 92octane rating may be a problem, but you'd have to contact fiat to ask about how they can sell a car in a 92 market that demands 95.

I dont get what you say the cars cost?

Personally I'd go for the Bravo. It's bigger and more comfortable. Both will have same issues with fuel, crazy drivers and roads. Which do you prefer the look and specification of?

BTW - MPG is not an issue in Eygpt, the goverment subsidise fuel.

It is as Follows:

Diesel "Injection" Cars Can Never Handle our extremely dirty diesel fuel the peugeout 1.6 diesel failed in egypt suffering a melted injector and an utterly destroyed fuel tank and that was the same story with the Fiat Linea 1.3 turbo multi jet even worse the company didn't gurantee the turkish car and claimed that it changed the injectors and fuel tank to suit "harsh desert climates and dirty diesel"?? People still didn't claim their money back.

as i was saying i will never ever ever go for a frickin american fuel guzzle machine that costs 1mill 200,000 LE without taxes that will cost you Mega Running costs and stupid service center isn't there.

About the octane level i did contact fiat and i understood that the cars without the turbo can withstand 92 fuel octane but won't give you the specified engine power as written on the cars manual for exaple an 80 hp might drop to 77-75 hp which isn't alot but the engine might be louder? and consumption will go higher and ofcourse torque figures will diminish highly.

as for the car cost lets say a fiat grande punto costs about 10,000 euros (i don't know which spec) 10,000 euros cost 80,000 pounds (1 Euro = 1 Egyptian pound). average wages in egypt are around 1500 Le and average wages in europe might vary from 1500 euros to 3000 euros. what i'm saying here is that its way too easy to accumulate money to buy a car in cash not to mention by installments in europe and maybe the U.K. too. but in egypt for example a good money earner in egypt will gain about 5000 Le and face 2000 to 4000 le taxes monthly maybe less maybe more depending on the lifestyle of the individual so lets say you will save 1000 le a month and not buy clothing, junk-food, treats to yourself for a year to will end up saving about 12,000 le in one year and the minimum spec Grande punto in Egypt costs 89,900 LE and costs 15,000 to 20,000 Le a year to maintain which is by the way super cheap compared to other rivals !!!
You gotta be Supreme Rich to Buy a Decent car in egypt.

What do you mean by the governement subsidises fuel?
Either way the 92 octane 1 Liter costs 1.40 Le. which means a 45 liter tank grande punto refill costs 1.40 x 45 = 63 le.

anywya the main Question Was " Why Buy A Fiat Bravo While A Cheaper more Economic Fiat Grande Punto is out there?"
Clues about how to calculate check my first post and no 11 to know the road conditions.

so far one answer from hellcat who sought size and comfort. but didn't read post #1 and tell me which spec is more economic and why.

So this is it huh? the last reply 3 days ago?

Am I asking for too much?

Its just an opinion i need here with a little justification, fiat forum, right....

mogou said:

So this is it huh? the last reply 3 days ago?
Am I asking for too much?
Its just an opinion i need here with a little justification, fiat forum, right....

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Theres a search option on the forum and lots of threads and posts where you could read and form your own opinion.
Your conditions in Egypt are not what most of us are familiar with so there is an understandable reluctance from people to recommend.
The GP has had a lot of problems ( allegedly) which are evident in the Tech section of the GP forum. The other cars too new to show a build fault trend.

Some Fiat dealers here seem to have real problems dealing with customers and fixing their cars. Is that a lot better in Egypt?

Its not what you want to hear, but my advice is to go with a car and dealer network that is *proven* in your countries conditions.

I buy Fiats, but would not dream of buying one within 12 months of the start of production, to see how many build faults are *continuing* to come off the line..

That leaves the GP. Have a look at how much trouble some people have had with it though. How good is your local dealer and do you have a choice of elsewhere locally if the dealer is a dud.

Welcome to the Forum

Thank you for answering. you know oilrag you do have a point.

the gp's just too glitchy based on the luck of the buyer...
but it has been successful but still hasn't been there for long on the egyptian market as it has been released here in egypt at the end of 2006, but however the older punto's have the reputation of being super reliable in egypt and easy to buy and run soo ....?

Yes and fiat dealers are way better than most they're like the second cheapest service center in egypt compared to the first ofcourse Hyundai, but they offer better quality than hyundai and fix problems usually faster than most. From what I hear about the ones in england they sure sound like alotta trouble to go through.

as for the bravo yeah guess you're right other than its a fiat thats only 12 months old and still the first of its new bravo generation of production that still hasn't been selling very well and is still untested and unknown its a risk i guess.... However still the older Bravo/brava was superbly successful in egypt i met a guy at the dealership that a 730,000 Km brava and its still kickin' well didn't cost him alot on the over all scale and still has a good residual and also met alot of satisfied old bravo/brava owners, so does that mean the newer generation might live up to the old bravo/brava or will it contribute to the stilo's reputation?

the local dealer is great and trying to sell and put fiat back on the top but doesn't have the proper marketing tools and strategy and they're mostly trying their best in tryin to sell the new fiat linea and i have to say its a great car but i'm aiming for an italian made fiat this time no more brazilian,egyptian,chinese,turkish,romanian,argentine, wherever!? fiats for me. Italian fiat it is.

by the way did the fiat linea appear at your country or still not yet?

and also give your final verdict about the Fiat bravo and what you know about the fiat linea.

mogou said:

the local dealer is great and trying to sell and put fiat back on the top fiat .

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I have often thought that the quality and reliability of a dealership is more important than the marque. ( within reason of course)
Sound like Fiat is the one to go for.
Check out the sections on the cars that interest you, its all there.

Good luck with your choice

mogou said:

the local dealer is great and trying to sell and put fiat back on the top but doesn't have the proper marketing tools and strategy and they're mostly trying their best in tryin to sell the new fiat linea and i have to say its a great car but i'm aiming for an italian made fiat this time no more brazilian,egyptian,chinese,turkish,romanian,argentine, wherever!? fiats for me. Italian fiat it is.

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I am sorry but you're 1000% wrong

The new local dealer ( OMATRA ) Is crap , crap beyond all measures
I own the same Palio as yours , done 25,000 KMs already and I know what I am talking about , bunch of thiefs ... that is what the local dealer is .

I love fiat and I love my Palio , Although If I would go back in time I would've chosed a diffrent car for the price , not because of the car , just thanks to the stupid dealership .

I bought my Palio in 2006 for 68,000LE , 1 Year waranty , Basic HLX with nothing wroth mentioning excpet the FRONT electrical windows maybe ? I wasn't fooled tho I got what I asked for and the car was Good .

3 months later , I find the car FLYING over bumps Getting Dropped to the ground with all kind of wierd noises you can tell !

I go to the dealership ( Your Front Shock Absorbers Are Not Working ) so I question like ... HOW ?? it only made 2,000 KM so far !

They say its not thier problem , its not covered in the 1 year waranty ( 1 year ? I got a 2 years waranty on my Adidas Shoes ) .

so I have to pay 800 LE to get my new Absorbers so I did , 2 weeks later , Terrible accident , lost the front headlamp and the left side mirror .

Went to the dealer , of course its not thier problem , How much for a headlamp ? 850 LE , how much for a side mirror ? 600 LE !! ( and its not even electrical its the regular mechanical one ) .

I had to pay of course , Because no one else outside the dealership have the spare parts .

10,000KMs. ... car won't shift ....
Went to the dealer ... " Sorry your MASTER CLUTCH system " has failed !!
But this was changed under the warranty ! thank god ! ( it costs 2500 le )

now after the 20,000 service , The car refuses to start .... called Fiat Emergency , they sent a pickup truck ... took my car to the dealer ( 24 hours after the 20,000 Service )

" Sorry your FUEL PUMP has gone bad " ... only option is to replace it , how much is a FIAT 3rd world car Fuel Pump ? 1250 LE

and oh ur " Front Windows suddenly refuses to open/close " thats 350 le for each and OH !! your Brake Pads are dying ! 300LE !
AND OH ! the brake calibers are getting old ... 2x300LE ..


now after changing all of these , the brakes still make terrible noises when I brake , the car makes TERRIBLE wind noise over 110km/h .

and worse of all , Squeaks and Creaks are coming out of everywhere !
No Thanks ! thats not a good dealership !

I paid almost 7,000 LE in less than 1 year of ownership , so I expect next year I will change the Engine / Tyres ... and by 2010 , I would buy doors / hood and boots ....

yet after of that crap ! I still like the car , its fast , responsive , brakes good , fun to drive arround town and the engine is really nice ( Compared to my 1300cc corrolla before ) .

but after all that TAKING and no giving at all , I found out they SUDDENLY STOPPED importing my brazilian palios ... and replaced them with a cheaper older generation CHINESE palios !

and Releases a Fiat Nuova PUNTO ( not grand punto ) just the New Italian Punto , Petrol 1.2L 8v ... for 70.000 ( 2,000 le more than my Palio ) ...

and 3 years waranty ..

Sorry was I mugged ??? YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I Am !

Prices wise , the Gpunto sucks and the bravo sucks ... ( I love both of them dont get me wrong ) but if this is the kind of dealership after them , believe me ur gonna regret your purchase .

( Please excuse my english/grammar )
Thanks .

To be fair to the dealer though, surely the pads and tyres are service items and how can your accident be their problem?

Regards

I didn't say they wer Oilrag , I am talking about the PRICES of the spare parts ... these prices are more than a Golf/Astra/Corolla ... so much for a 3RD WORLD CAR ... don't you think ?

And changing all these things in just one year of ownership ?
and especialy after each visit to the dealer .. something pops out of the caR !!

cryptonx said:

Went to the dealer , of course its not thier problem , How much for a headlamp ? 850 LE , how much for a side mirror ? 600 LE !! ( and its not even electrical its the regular mechanical one ) .

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Ok this is off topic. Although the original topic I think has come to a close.

As for that being expencive - I make that as £75 for a headlamp and £50 for a wingmirror. That's cheap as anything. Looking around £150 for a headlamp in the UK.

£130 for a electric Punto wing mirror without painting and fitting :bang:.

As for original topic I think you need to drive them to decide. DEMAND a test drive.

Mr Cryptonx or should I Say Karim, I Believe we have met before around 8 to 9 months ago at Fiat omatra near El-obour not that you'll remember me whatever I should say that you've really went on Fiat omatra's horrible dark side as I have seen your driving by the way more than once you're like killing you car and treating it like crap by throwin' her at bumps revving her up senselessly this is a 3rd world fiat Palio and a 1.3 fire elx for the love of God Man?! Its a small front drive engine what did you expect? it should function well as long as you be easy with the car. If you have read the instructions manual you should understand that this car is made to be used gently and not to exceed the maximum torque anyways i will not discuss your driving style no more as many of course will disagree with my over-protective opinions.

The car's basic options are worth mentioning! as you won't ever find these options in many of the basic cars in the Egyptian market.
You've got two front electrical windows one touch, A Trip computer (*Instant consumption-avg consumption-avg speed-Range-Time set for drive-service interval-brakepad sensor,.. etc), follow me home headlamps, manual climate control, rear head-rests, internal fuel-lid and boot opener-switches, a fog light switch, 4 loud speakers, foldable rear seat, i onno i think i can find even more for you ?

By the way the first palio price was 65,000LE then i appreciated to 68,000LE then its 73,000LE now so you should be thankful that the car is a good investment and the Palio 1.3 elx is now making a name for itself in Egypt and residuals are getting as it being more popular for being the new reliable car from Fiat that Doesn't heat-Up.

As for the chinese palio whether it becomes a success or not eventually after 2010 most cars from most companies will be not only assembeled but made in china so face it. (Remember in the past when no one trusted japanese cars as they were as bad as chinese cars nowadays well think about it instead of B##c##n' about it)

So They stopped importing the palio 1.3 elx so what that will make residuals even higher don't you know egypt? unless they import the palio 2008 that will cost way more than the older model i don't know what will lower the price mileage?

Oh yeah and by the way Karim Learn this the old fashioned way " Your Accident Your Problem "

On the overall karim.

I'm sorry for all your losses with your palio but most of them seem to be non of omatra's evil doing and i bet you haven't seen the prices at the other dealerships yet by then you'll wish you just had a bicycle.

Sorry for being so harsh with ya mate, i don't mean anything personal okay?

soo who has got a debate thats on the topic which is which is better for egypt's terrain and conditions the gp or the new bravo?

Hey Mogou ,
Yeah I remmember you You and your black Palio and the man you HIT in the Azhar Tunnel , right ?

Well , I can't argue about my driving style .. I am bit aggressive yes , but I never throw my car at Road bumps or speed / over-heat the car etc etc except at highways sometimes but most of the time and since my work is in downtown , average speed is 20 - 40 km/h .. on highways I never go beyond 120km/h becasuse the car thinks its a water craft or a ship after 120 , ( mainly due to the huge ground clearance ) .

I haven't modified anything in the car except a new sport induction system , and removed the laughable 4 speakers replaced them with my own .

and other from the Computer trip , the rest of these features are almost identical to any car in its class/pice category even in egypt .

I didn't blame Omatra for my accidents , but a faulty clutch system / faulty suspension ( they said it themselves that its not caused by a bump or so ) and a faulty fuel pump in less than 20,000 kms ,, I think thats horrible .

Japaneese cars you say , My dad owned a 94 automatic Corolla , for 10 years ... in 10 years he only changed the battery and the brakes ... the rest of the car remained in PEREFECT condition till the 90,000 kms ( when sold ) .

Other makes ? my dad now owns the new Ford Focus , and my mom has a Hyundai Getz

The Ford focus which costs 145,000 LE , front headlamps : 450 le .. rear ones : 250 le ...

Hyundai Getz : front : 400 - rear : 150 ( thats the original ones , there's alot more even cheaper ) .

you obviously have no problems with these prices mogue cuz if I remmmeber correctly you car was insured .. mine isn't .

Anyways I am not going to discuss this any further as you seem convinced with OMATRA , although if you search arround egyptian car forums and or any other Palio owner ( i've met 4 already ) they will curse Omatra beyond imagination .

Back to your subject , leaving these issues asside , if you can afford the Bravo , I would've get it with no looking back .. it eats the GP alive
larger / bigger & better engien and more features , but dont forget to get it insured .. cuz u will be one of the 3-4 owners only in egypt , so dont expect anything from the after-market .

Good Luck mate .

I don't think it really matter which you get they will both be fine. As said the bravo is the better car if you can afford it I know I can't here in the UK well not the model I want anyway . The GP is a cracking car you wouldn't be disapointed either.