General KEYS Question

[neoseal]

Hello all,

I have been reading all the keys related threads for the past 3 hours and still couldnt get satisfactory answer hence starting the thread.

I bought a brava 1.2 last week. It has just one red key which is being used to run the car. To my wonder, after accidently bumping into "keys" thread, where someone has suggested not to use the red key as it will reprogrammed the ecu everytime the engine is started. I am terrified as I have to make a duplicate keys, but that is not the problem.

The main question here is if I make a duplicate of the red key, will it be clone of the red key or will it be the slave key similar to the blue key? Is it possible to make blue keys from a red key? There is no satisfactory answer anywhere on the forum, so would like some real good answer to this.

neoseal:bang:

 

[T14086]

Go to dealer & get 2 blue keys....its that simple.Dealer can also prog them or you can do it yourself.Is that a really good answer?

 

[JoskeJTD]

You have the important red key, go to Fiat get them to order you two new keys and get them programmed in. You will need the red key and code card. Code Card costs approx £15 from Fiat.

I wouldn't use the red key for long as a permanent measure.

 

[T14086]

card is £5.00 but some folk here have got it for £2.00

Reason you shouldnt use red key is because the code system is expecting a key prog procedure to be carried out which obviously doesnt occur,can confuse(even lock out)the system.

 

[neoseal]

Thanks all, info is useful and will do the same but the question is still unanswered, "Is the new duplicat key, the clone of original red key or it is just a slave key?"

 

[T14086]

You dont get a duplicate you get 2 slave keys.You cannot clone the red key.

p.s,you dont need a key card

 

[neoseal]

Thanks T14086, it is just I was going thru this thread

https://www.fiatforum.com/bravo-brava/42459-bravo-replacement-keys.html?highlight=keys

where the issue of cloning is highlighted and so am bit worried of red key cloning. Thanks for the info.

 

[jug]

i got my red key cloned for about £20 at timpsons, it looks blue but it has the same code as the red key and does allow me to program blue keys into the ecu so it is a clone of the red key. to create a blue slave key you can copy the metal part of the red key but then add any valid code that is different to the red key. you can get valid codes from other fiat keys. a cinq code has programmed into a bravo ecu with no probs before. timpsons can read the code from any key and then copy it onto one of their keys. if you have a friend with a fiat that uses a red key style immob just get 2 codes from their keys and transfer them onto 2 blank slave keys, then use the usual key code programming sequence with the original red key to program the two new blue keys into the ecu.

 

[neoseal]

Jug your views differ from what T14086 says and I think the same as you, the new keys will be the clone of the red key and will function as red key irrespective of its look. So I have to get two codes and programme it into new keys, which will be different from the red key code. Then programme ecu according to new blue keys. Wouldnt this mess up the ecu, for the red key code?
Who will programme the ecu according to new blue keys, can I do it myself or I will have to go to dealer?
Now am bit confused.

 

[Helz]

It's not a different view on the matter, just a different way of doing it - T14086 suggests you can go to Fiat to get slave keys made, jug suggests you can use the key barrel from your red key and code from another Fiat key (with the same immobiliser system), which while slightly more complicated, will probably work out cheaper. Choice is yours

 

[T14086]

Right can I end this please!!!

You have red (master) key yes? And you want 2 blue (slave) keys yes?

OK here goes......

1)go to dealer/timpsons/woolworths/sunday market/asdas wherever you want to get 2 blue keys. I state dealer because alot of cheaper keys that you can get can sometimes have difficulty programming thats all not because i'm biased.
2)Get keys cut to same pattern as your red one.
3)Leave the shop/market/supermarket(delete as appropiate)
4)Try cut keys in car door to make sure they are cut correctly
5)Get in car
6)put red key in ignition & turn on,wait for code light to go out(about 3 secs)
7)take out red key & put one of the blue keys in,turn ignition on,wait for code light to go out(3 secs)
8)take key out & put other blue key in,turn ignition on,wait for code light to go out(3 secs)
9)take blue key out & put red key back in again,turn ignition on,wait for code light to go out(3 secs)
10)take red key out.
11)try both blue keys & make sure engine starts with them both.
12)put keys on key ring
13)drive home
14)switch on PC & access Fiat forum website
15)Donate £5.00 after all you have saved £££

The end

 

[Hellcat]

I take it that the blue keys that come from dealer/timpsons etc have their own code, and that you teach the ECU to allow that code, rather than programming the key with a code that the ECU allows?

 

[jug]

thats right hellcat, the blue key has a code which the ecu can learn, it can be any code as long as its different to the red key code which the ecu has permanently stored. the ecu learning process (as described by T14086 above) only works if you have 2 blue keys & 1 red key, if you only have one blue it wont work because the ecu expects a 3 key sequence, you cant use the same blue key twice in the sequence, thats an annoying bit that im sure fiat stuck in to get more money from key making.

 

[Hellcat]

What is the range like for these keys? Could I wrap my single key in foil to turn the barrel, and use one of Bunny's blue keys for the code?

If I got a pair of keys from Timsons will they already have a code? If so why do they offer to clone your current blue key? How do they change the code?

Lots of questions!

 

[jug]

i tried wrapping a key in lead plate actually, while i held a cinq key next to it, but that didnt work so i learnt the hard way that you need 2 blue keys, or a cinq key that will turn in the ignition.

the machine at timpsons has 2 modes, capture and write. in capture mode they put a key in the machine and it reads the code and displays it. in write mode it will write the last captured code to whatever key is in the machine.

if you put one of my keys in the machine you could capture my code, then you could stick a virgin blue key in and write my code to one of your new blue keys. you could then teach that code to your ecu. then we'd be code brothers

 

[neoseal]

Understood well, now I went to timpsons today and got my key cut from the "red key". I asked him that the new blue key, which he will cut will have the same code as the red key, and will act as master key. He denied, said that the blue key will not act as master key and the code will be different. Now I tested the key on my car and it worked. So now I am puzzeled, how did my ecu learnt the new code without red key being inserted first? How to test if my new blue key is not the master key? Do dealers have a way to test these keys?

 

[T14086]

NumanR already answered this............

https://www.fiatforum.com/bravo-brava/42459-bravo-replacement-keys.html?highlight=keys

 

[jug]

the guy in timpsons is wrong you have 2 red keys now, not a red and a blue, they will both have the same code. you can go back to timpsons (a different one is probably best) and ask them to read the codes from both keys, it takes 5 seconds, all they do is put it in the reader and the code is displayed on the digital display, compare both codes, they will be the same, that means you have 2 red keys. the fac that the key works your car also confirms it has to be a red key.

to make a blue key you need to get a code from a key that is from a car with the fiat code system (cars with a red key). if i remember rightly each key has a 20 digit code made up of alphanumeric characters, eg, XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-XXXX. you need to get the code from a key and copy it onto your new key. timpsons can do it, it takes then no time at all, they did it for free when i got 2 keys cut, you need to get 2 blue keys cut and coded with different codes to allow the ecu to learn them.

easy as that

 

[neoseal]

T14086, I have read that thread before posting this thread, but I think this timpson man misguided me. Jug what you are telling is right. I went today to scrapy and got a bravo blue key. I told the timpson man what we discussed but he denied this, I think they are mechanical people just making keys.

Do you suggest that I should go back to him tomorrow with my scrapy blue key, ask him to programme that code into my blue key and then programme it into my ecu.

 

[T14086]

T14086, I have read that thread before posting this thread, but I think this timpson man misguided me.

So you believed a 'bloke' in Timpsons before the top Fiat tech(numanR)of the year!:shakehead