I'm confused, sounds correct or am I misreading?

It should sit around halfway whatever unless there's extreme cold, heat or traffic and the fan doesn't cut in. Thermostat will control when coolant circulates through the radiator. Mine have failed "open" so the car warms up slowly and doesn't want to get to mid-point due to overcooling, espaecially in autumn / winter.

You could have carefully removed the thermostat (without tearing the gasket) to inspect it when you were doing your overhaul. You can do a test in a pan of hot water if convenient, to check its opening / closing.

Well, yesterday, with the bodge, the car run like a treat and the temp gauge was sitting at one dot below middle, with occasional movement to the middle in traffic. That was with the bodge job and de-ionized water in it. Today, I replaced the cracked tank (it ruptured again in the bodge spot), put new coolant in, bled the system both with the valves and by "pumping" the hoses and now the temp gauge sits literally a millimeter, just a hair upwards of the middle point.

I also noticed I have white foam in the overflow tank and bubbling when the revs go up and the coolant gets circulated.

Worst case scenario I'm thinking HGF but the white foam, absolutely normal running and lack of any other signs (sludge/fouled oil etc.) point to something else. I carefully inspected the whole cooling system but I can't seem to find any leaks whatsoever. I was thinking faulty water pump but that seems to work fine as well. Hoses temperatures are as they should be.

Is the gauge supposed to be even a hair above normal and is it just me being a hypochondriac or do you think there really is something wrong?

edit: Went for another ride now and temp gauge was steady below mid point. FFS...

sounds pretty normal to me, like bluejohn said, the needle can fluctuate around the middle, and mount up to the upper limits during stop start traffic, so long as the fan kicks in, and it's not seriously overheating, you should be ok.
with regards to the bubbles, that could just be a purge problem, or it could be a head gasket, you need a compression test to be sure. do you have mayonaise on the oil cap?

Yes, seems to be fine apart from the bubbles, a compression test will show HGF failure typically if 2 adjacent cylinders are low.

If the car doesn't overheat badly due to HGF failure then a repair should be straightforward and a skim may not be necessary.

Well, problem solved, it seems! I bled the system again through cycles, bled with the valves as well as the hoses and went for a ride. Temp gauge shows below mid point and climbs to the middle only in traffic.
The problem must've been me overfilling it. The level was quite high after a ride so I took the cap off and let it spill out the extra. That seemed to do it, because after that it works like a charm again!

I do have heater problems because, unless I'm moving (ie actively revving the motor) the fan air grows cooler and cooler, especially on the high fan setting. Still, the heater core is completely out of both my reach and my expertise, so I'll leave that for later. AC works fine though so if I can soldier on during the winter, I'm golden!

For now, I'm a happy camper! Here's hoping it'll last!

Once again, many thanks to all of you for taking the time, I owe you beer if you come to Greece!

That's good news, as for the heating well I have no idea about aircon on these cars, but obviously the systems must be linked. Now that you have the filling and bleeding method sorted you should be ok for a while but you should definitely flush the system next time with an additive just to clear sludge from the radiator and heater matrix.

I agree that filling these to the correct level is really difficult due to the placing of the marks on the tank hidden halfway down the rad.

Well, once again, same s^&#, different day.

Gauge kept steady above mid point. Bled again and again and AGAIN and nothing. Refreshed the coolant pretty much completely, nothing again. I give up, as long as it doesn't burst into flames, I don't know what else to do.
Here are some pics of what I'm talking about:





Here's hoping it'll be fine because I got a 500km trip in a couple of days and I can't afford it blowing up on the highway!

Merry Christmas, by the way!

the temp gauge is fine up to the red, if it gets up to to the red dot before the red line, i would be concerned, but fluctuating around the middle is quite normal.
the small amount of bubbles you're seeing are probably from the liquid falling down the 4cm from the overflow tube.

Thing is, it's not fluctuating pretty much at all! It warms up and stubbornly stays there, perhaps even a tiny tiny movement upwards or even tinier downwards!

Also, the overflow system fill up is pretty awkward. If I fill it up to the max point when cold, when it gets hot after a ride it pretty much fills up the whole reservoir and of course, boils.

It's really bugging me, I don't think it's normal but there's very little I can do right now.

(first off, sorry for not editing, it seems the time limit's gone by)

Well, after my nightly bleed (told you I can't leave well enough alone!), which, surprisingly, was quite the thorough one, I think I may have finally discovered my problem, via the crucible of glorious, percussive maintenance.

Since it was still stuck to the above pictured spot and nothing else had worked, I thought, what the hell, let's try banging on the damn thing. And lo and behold, it got back where it's supposed to be, it just jumps up a hair along with the rev counter and speedometer.

Merry Christmas!

Now that you've got photos working, howabout some of the car and these famous alloy wheels?

Sure man! I'm back in my hometown for the holidays and did about 500km with the car, albeit not entirely uneventful! For pretty much the whole trip, the car was shaking pretty violently, weirdly only under acceleration at speeds over 80km. It probably was the tires/wheels since I checked everything else and found nothing out of the ordinary.

Anyway, the infamous wheels are now OFF! I found a quartet of 15" 6j steelies and put 175/60/15's on it and finally, the car can breathe! The steering got noticeably lighter and it does pull a lot better, especially in lower revs! All in all, a great change. I did like the alloys better but I'm all for function over form, so it's for the better!

Here's hoping that'll have fixed the whole shaking issue as well, but I'll need more open road than what I have available now, so we'll see on the return trip!

Anyway, enough with my babbling, here's my Brava (with the alloys on still).

The car does look nice, the alloys too but I agree you're probably best without them.

175/60 15 tyres seem like a slightly unusual size to find but they should be fine. An acceptable width but maybe slightly stretched on the rim?

I presume if your steel wheels are genuine Fiat they came from a Stilo or maybe Marea? The wobbling problem with the alloys could be down to the wheelbolt fitting.. is it possible that the PCD/BCD (hole spacing diameter) of the alloys was actually 100mm instead of the specific 98mm for Fiat / Alfa wheels? If its hard or expensive to find alloys in Greece it's quite possible that someone fitted the wrong ones and just about got away with it. The only accurate way to check is with some digital calipers, though a good steel ruler might be good enough.

Well, strangely, there wasn't any stretching involved! It seems the 175's sit right well on there, even being the mininum width tyre for a 6j wheel. 185/55/15 is the ideal I believe but at least now I'm actually spoiled for choice, so that's a big plus in my book!

Another plus I neglected to add was the fact that, the steelies are SIGNIFICANTLY lighter than the alloys I had on! Perhaps it was the 7inch width and the bigger tyres compared to the new steelies but quite a noticeable difference.
They were indeed from another Fiat but I think it was the Idea. Not too sure, to be honest but their dimensions were spot on so I'm not worried.

The tyres were used to cut costs so I didn't have much of a choice there. I'd found some really fresh ones and we fitted them but they were 65's and I had scraping on the front bumper's edge upon breaking or downhill so we took them off and fitted the 60's instead and it's golden now. I'm actually still amazed how much better the car behaves, to be honest! I can't imagine how it would be with the stock 14's, which, to my great disappointment, I wasn't able to find even in my hometown (it's Greece's second largest city).

As for the previous alloys, the PCD seemed to be 98 alright but the center rings were definitely not Fiat's 58.1, if I remember correctly, and I imagine that their weight and dimensions, coupled with bad old tyres and worn rings might've produced the vibrations and shuddering.

Today I got it up to 130-140km/h without any trouble so that might've been the problem after all.
In any case, I gave the old alloys as a trade for the new ones plus tyres so I can't really measure them and I don't much care, to be honest, I'm just glad I got rid of them!

To be safe, I jacked the car today and checked the CV joints, axles and everything in between and all seemed to be fine, so it does seem like it was the wheels, indeed.
It did come up with a few more problems (park indicators and a ruptured brake line) but I replaced them in a jiffy and all is well!

I got a fright with the cooling system as well today, since I opened the bonnet and found the overflow tank empty, remembering that I did fill it up before the trip. Still, the temp was spot on, the motor worked fine and I had no leaks or HG indications. I filled it up, done some distance and again, all was well. It seems the many, many bleeds finally took and the system just needed more.

In any case, there's still some stuff that needs to be done but for now, it's as good as can be!

I'll keep updating the thread since it really has become like a car service journal more than anything, so... stay tuned! hahahaa!

Well, back to base but during the trip I still had the shudder under acceleration, even with the new wheels and tires. Surely not as bad but still there nonetheless. I'm thinking CV joints, although the skirts are fine and I don't see any slack and couldn't produce any movement by hand. Still, I suppose they could crap out if they've never been changed, which is my suspicion. The car does have 236k km's, after all, it's a miracle they survived that long!

I'm planning on going to a trusted mechanic first, just in case it's something else.

Hmmm... have you checked the front suspension A-frame wishbones? Just a thought but they always go on these cars (front or rear bush), you usually hear a Clonking noise when you go over slight bumps.

Or engine mounts?

I checked pretty much everything in the front, nothing seems to be out of the ordinary apart from a somewhat worn tie rod end on the right hand side and a slightly torn boot in the steering rack but that doesn't seem to spit out much and I'm not losing any PS fluid so it seems secondary.
The engine mounts I'd also checked but they seem sturdy as, even when I revved it quite high.

I also get no knocking noise when accelerating to indicate CV joint issues and don't hear the characteristic whine/squeal of shot bearings.

Thing is, I got to ride around town lately and gave it a good go but it doesn't seem to vibrate anymore. Which leads me to think that, whatever is causing this, starts actually causing it after getting quite hot. First indications I had of this was after doing a straight 300km+ run with the new wheels and after about 150km with the old ones.

Conclusions: it starts doing this after something(?) gets hot, it only does it under acceleration and stops if I let off the throttle or press the clutch, it doesn't seem to affect the steering wheel that much as opposed to make the whole car "shudder" (I feel it more in the pedals and the whole car than the steering wheel) and it seems to present itself at about 75-80 until 95-100km/h and after 125km/h.

At this point and considering all the above, I'm thinking it might even be something with the gearbox but I can't think of anything that'll cause an overheating gearbox to cause these vibrations under load and the oil in the box is fresh.

Ideas?

To a point, you have to just accept that cars are bell-ends, you can spend all your time pulling things apart and hunting niggles, and convincing yourself that something isn't right mechanically, and waste countless weekends lying under the stupid things, and pay stupid money at multiple garages, only to discover, 80,000km later, that you had just bought **** pirelli tyres that weren't quite round enough.
This actually happened on my old car, i changed my egg shaped tyres and all my wobbly problems went away.
the point is, dont be like me, don't dive head first into the rabbit hole, searching the slightest problem, preventative maintenance is great, but these are old girls, sit back, and let them actually break, before you invest too much time and money.

It did it again on a 100km round trip the other day but at least it isn't as pronounced or downright scary as it was with the old wheels. Ah well, guess you're right. I can't really keep throwing money at it, changing everything til something sticks.

Also found the culprit for my heating problems and of course it's a clogged heater core. But, the way the motor and misc. are laid out in there, I can't get my hands around there well enough to do away with those dreadful single use clips to flush it. Frustrating, and I doubt the access is much better from underneath the car.

And by the way, I'm thinking I'll have to change the timing belt too, considering I have no idea when it was last replaced and the high mileage of the car.

Aaaanyway...

I think for the clogged heater you need to do as I suggested and put a half-bottle of a flushing agent (I recommend Wynns) and leave it in for a while (because it's not too concentrated). Then flush the system out with clean water and refill using the rest of the bottle, run for half an hour then drain refill and rinse a few times (running the engine to hot with the heater on) before filling with new coolant.

If you want to reuse your coolant you could drain it and keep it before doing the flushing with clean water, and then refill at the end. But the chances are that the corrosion inhibitors are expired and that's maybe why the system is clogged up.

Obviously winter's not the most convenient time to do this but you will get the benefit.