Yoshi2u said:

Been in contact wiv the lad, says hes sure nothing wrong ... he said he wasnt aware of any smoke ...

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Interesting case. If it’s Uniform-Golf (Black X-reg) then the clues are there. It looks as if it’s been un-taxed (& un-insured?) for a spell.

What is the MoT history? …

http://motinfo.direct.gov.uk/internet/jsp/ECSID-Internet-Status-Request.jsp

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If you have black smoke and power loss, most likely you have a leak in the induction system (it could be a simple pipe, a hose or the intercooler - ouch).
Generally associated with a split hose, there's some oil leaks too.

If there's some coming out, before you worry too much, it needs to be identified where from. It could be a bad gasket or a exhaust pipe junction or even a connection to the EGR.

Good diagnosis are helped if one is calm. I understand it is very easy to get nervous and worried (I am that sort of guy ) and then we will be able to better help you .

For the moment... I wouldn't put those ideas into the garage guys. If you are doing the expensive diagnosis for them, they might take on it and if it doesn't cure the problem it will be harder on you!

YES , I can be my own worst enemy !

I just popped round with my friend, and the guy said it "is" bad news, he is more than "sure" its the turbo, as he couldnt find any problems with the pipes an hoses ! But Im not sure how much i trust there competence ! as he said he didnt want to cost me money by taking it apart to check !!!

So I think I need a second opinion , maybe some one with better experience ???

My brother reckons I should look for a turbo repair specialist ???

Or at least a diesel specialist ???

Im rock bottom right now, sob sob !

I have seen a turbo on ebay from a large salvage company, phoned em to just ask about it, they say was tested as working in the vehicle, and off a 61k engine , for 150 ! Is this a good price, it seems so to me !

But I cant afford to jump that bloody gun without being 100% thats the problem.

My life is in tatters...lol. Now my brother is driving up from derby as we speak, to pick me up, so i can down to derby for my interview. And to where i have another faulty motor, my peugeot 205 cj......waaaaaaaaaaa

just though id add, that i googled for turbo repair specialist, found one in stockton ! was having a really good chat ! til he mentions that if its something simple like the maf, they retail for 220 !!!!

Are you f ing kidding me !

I know there probably cheap copies the ones on ebay for 25 quid, but I sure as hell no they aint no 220 ! thats what happens when one is cursed with a well spoken articulate voice ! they must assume im frigging minted lol

Check out the link I posted for a MAF supplier. I paid just £65 plus VAT for my MAF sensor which is genuine Bosch. There's also a £23 surcharge, but that is refunded when you return the faulty unit ( I guess they recycle them). You don't need to replace the entire sensor, just the internal "blade"

Yoshi2u said:

YES , I can be my own worst enemy !

I just popped round with my friend, and the guy said it "is" bad news, he is more than "sure" its the turbo, as he couldnt find any problems with the pipes an hoses ! But Im not sure how much i trust there competence ! as he said he didnt want to cost me money by taking it apart to check !!!

So I think I need a second opinion , maybe some one with better experience ???

My brother reckons I should look for a turbo repair specialist ???

Or at least a diesel specialist ???

Im rock bottom right now, sob sob !

I have seen a turbo on ebay from a large salvage company, phoned em to just ask about it, they say was tested as working in the vehicle, and off a 61k engine , for 150 ! Is this a good price, it seems so to me !

But I cant afford to jump that bloody gun without being 100% thats the problem.

My life is in tatters...lol. Now my brother is driving up from derby as we speak, to pick me up, so i can down to derby for my interview. And to where i have another faulty motor, my peugeot 205 cj......waaaaaaaaaaa

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Ok, the turbo is a possibility. However these turbos are really very strong. I recommend you ask the guy to spell out why he suspects the turbo is the culprit.
Personally I never saw a turbo smoking, unless it is severely damaged, and it doesn't happen over night (unless it's running on the Dakar). The same with an oil leak.
Any play in the shaft? Turbo bearings? Needs some explanation I guess.
Again, I am not excluding the turbo but for the engine not to run over 2000 rpm and smoke from the engine, the turbo would need to be destroyed and for a long time.

The guys were pretty much arseholios IMO !

Didnt have a lot to say, told me to scrap it ! maybe they were right !

just looked in a old friend whos got a garage who I forgot about, he said he noticed this thing that comes out of the waste gauge didnt move when the engine was started then stopped ! he tried to move it with a small bar but no play in it !

So i just watched him strip down the turbo, said he gonna soak it in a bit of wd40 and play with it a bit ! but when i left him he didnt seem to sure !

only to say he was addamant that waste gauge thingy should be moving at least when its turned off ! If not then why isnt it moving !!!!

Said id leave it with him !

Funny thing is, after I left the garage, it felt like it had the same amount of power it did to begin with ! its reving to 3000 now ! i can almost do forty on the right road if i work the gears ????

But ! there was no smoke whatsoever !!!!

Yoshi2u said:

The guys were pretty much arseholios IMO !

Didnt have a lot to say, told me to scrap it ! maybe they were right !

just looked in a old friend whos got a garage who I forgot about, he said he noticed this thing that comes out of the waste gauge didnt move when the engine was started then stopped ! he tried to move it with a small bar but no play in it !

So i just watched him strip down the turbo, said he gonna soak it in a bit of wd40 and play with it a bit ! but when i left him he didnt seem to sure !

only to say he was addamant that waste gauge thingy should be moving at least when its turned off ! If not then why isnt it moving !!!!

Said id leave it with him !

Funny thing is, after I left the garage, it felt like it had the same amount of power it did to begin with ! its reving to 3000 now ! i can almost do forty on the right road if i work the gears ????

But ! there was no smoke whatsoever !!!!

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Right then, we are getting somewhere!

Apparently your friend found out the turbo waste-gate is stuck. That happened on mine before. This is not unusual, in particular if one leaves the car stopped for some time. Indeed a full repair requires the turbo to come out but there's no need to replace it! The waste-gate is simply a moving lid. The actuator has a calibrated spring (to 1 bar of pressure) and when the intake system goes beyond that point the actuator opens the waste-gate; making the turbo lose the pressure. This is ok and as expected.
Now, if your car is from 2001, you should have a variable geometry turbo. Meaning that rather that a waste-gate actuator you have a device controlling the turbo geometry. Effectively the way it works is the turbo has internal vanes that should move according to the pressure on the actuator. And these vanes can get stuck too. There are a few posts in this forum (look for those in the Stilo). There's also a procedure to fix this, which I am not totally familiar with but it involves filling the turbo on the exhaust side with a liquid so the soot is removed and thereby releasing the vanes.
Now, I still suspect of your MAF... :yuck:

Thank you very much for your advice !

Ill tell my friend this, he did ask me to ask......

He says there seems to be no vaccum going to the wastegate ! he wanted to check a couple of switches he traced , but needed to borrow a tool to do this !

So he was interested in as to what might cause this ????

Also he says there seems to be a pipe coming out of the sump that he says dosent seem to go anywhere ????

Im leaving the car with him for a few days whilst in Derby, but could really use some feedback, as could he....lol

I really ****ing want to get to the bottom of this.........???

Also did a live test !!! diagnostic ! The MAF showed sum stats, but Im not sure to what percent it should be working when the engine is only doing 3000rpm !!!


look forward to more feedback, thanks again

just spoke to the guy, an relayed the info, he says its not that type of turbo ???? The guy i got it off, did say he really didnt think it was the turbo, as it had a recon, year an a half ago !

he says theres no veins in it !

Yoshi2u said:

just spoke to the guy, an relayed the info, he says its not that type of turbo ???? The guy i got it off, did say he really didnt think it was the turbo, as it had a recon, year an a half ago !

he says theres no veins in it !

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Well, in that case I would guess that a traditional turbo has been installed, rather than the VNT (variable geometry) one.

As far as I know, the VNT waste-gate actuator is feed by an electrovalve (called solenoid) that sits underneath the engine. The solenoid translates electrical impulses (pulse modulated) coming from the ECU into a certain air pressure that feeds the waste-gate actuator that in its turn controls the vanes position. I think that's why someone said to you that was expecting the actuator to move as soon as the engine runs.

But now you have a different type of turbo (possibly the one used in the Fiat Bravo JTD105, from 1999). This turbo won't need that connection to the solenoid. Hence a hanging hose connecting nowhere (I presume). So, with this turbo the waste-gate actuator must be connected to the pressurised path of the intake - i.e. between the turbo flange and the throttle body.
But again, it the actuator is stuck, you won't have the expected performance because the turbo is not building pressure (the exhaust gases are being bypassed directly to the exhaust).

Anyway, I am doing my best in the art of guessing as I haven't seen the car. But the theory is this: cars from 2001 should have the VNT turbo and if you have something different it could mean that either a different turbo has been fit or it can be a very very late unit from 1999...

Any other takers in this speculative exercise ?

Oh Dear.........:bang:

My friend is now I think waiting for an idea from me, he's waiting til he has a tool tomorrow to check whether these acctuators/solenoids are working or not ! but if your right, this will be a pointless exercise, no ?

Im sure now i think about it, the red pipe that came off the waste gauge didnt go anywhere !!!!

anything is possible at this stage, im assured it had a replacement engine, and have the paper work to prove, plus like i said, told it had a recon turbo !


Is there any chance, it could be the throttle sensor !!! this was what the guy who recovered me said, plus the muppet who i got the car from...???
thou my friend says no ! forgot he exact explanation !

This could get messy, as in needle in a hay stack ! maybe im exaggerating ! But right now its looking dicey especially when time is money !

I mean its looking more like its not the turbo ! which shows the 1st muppets I took the car to up !

also ! as stated, did a live diagnostic, it showed the MAF reading, which when the gas was pressed did rise, but not sure if thats conclusive ! shouldnt the turbo be kicking in after 2500revs, and why no vaccum.


anyone got any more ideas where to start ! I might buy a cheap ebay MAF, for test purposes , if it helps then , after a month, id invest in a proper boshe one......


any ideas on what might of failed or seized after 6 months being stood ?
Engine still sounds fine whilst idling, is it something electrical.

could anyone confirm ! he says he found what looks like a pipe coming off the sump, but nowhere for it to go ??

Dont suppose there any people around the north east ! close the middlesbrough !

Like I said I had a long chat with a fiat specialist, who i was almost going to go leave the car with, til he mentioned a MAF retails for 220, and he could probably get me a discount, anyone know the rough price for a MAF ! Because Im sure its half that, so i thought no way he'd have my pants down if i went to him.


oh well, let us see what happens !!!!

Yoshi2u said:

Like I said I had a long chat with a fiat specialist, who i was almost going to go leave the car with, til he mentioned a MAF retails for 220, and he could probably get me a discount, anyone know the rough price for a MAF !

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Look back through the thread. I already posted a ling to a genuine Bosch MAF sensor for less than £100

Sorry mate ! dont know where my heads at, missed your link !
Well thats what put me off straight away.....

I know i should be composing myself, i just keep worrying, what if my mate loses interest, or hit to big a wall, then what, its all money at the end of the day. I havent even got the time or space to fart around with it myself.

just need a lucky brake !


Not to go on whining, and playing my violin ! But bought the car for an upcoming job, that may start this monday. had to borrow the cash for the car, and now im having the wh*re myself for money to fix it......

So Right now i have but days to get to the bottom of this to have a car to get me to the job, and if i dont get it done by then, god knows ! wonder if i can take back roads from Redcar to Derby at 40 miles an hour ??? MMWWWHAHHHHAHHAHA !

Well Im calling my mechanic friend at dinner ! one he's cheap ! and two he's already proved himself more capable than the other muppets i 1st took the car to ! who were talking 50 pound an hour at least !!!! Now i remember why I always try to do the work myself........:slayer:

well Id still appreciate any more advice if anyone can muster sum, but i know its always hard without seeing a car !
Not sure if i mentioned already, but maybe ill try a 25£ MAF off ebay, if it works , then ill invest in a proper one, but a few have said the maf wouldnt cause such exetreme power loss !!!

Yoshi2u said:

could anyone confirm ! he says he found what looks like a pipe coming off the sump, but nowhere for it to go ??

Dont suppose there any people around the north east ! close the middlesbrough !

Like I said I had a long chat with a fiat specialist, who i was almost going to go leave the car with, til he mentioned a MAF retails for 220, and he could probably get me a discount, anyone know the rough price for a MAF ! Because Im sure its half that, so i thought no way he'd have my pants down if i went to him.


oh well, let us see what happens !!!!

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Hi there

Before we go any further, let's try an get a bit more objective. Again my thoughts late yesterday were purely based on some hints you gave here (e.g. non VNT Turbo, hanging pipes coming from the sump). Here's what to do:
1) Get us good pictures of the engine, turbo, solenoid, hanging pipes
2) Confirm the engine type (if it's from 2000 or beyond)
3) Get the turbo reference so we attempt to confirm whether it is VNT or not
4) Have you found out yet where the car smokes from?
5) Forget about cheap nasty MAFs, they can be even worse than a damaged one (use the recommended link) and do NOT by any means get one from powersparks on ebay or internet as they sell fake bosch MAFs.

Cheers

I have just messaged the guy, see when he gets back to me about some details on the trubo and engine.

I am in Derby today ( cars in Redcar), so I probably cant get any pictures up til tomorrow, but will endeavour to do so, asap !

I know it dosent count for much, but the lad ( muppet lol) I got the car from says when the car was last drove, about six months ago, there were no such running problem ! So I guess it could still be anything, but could it be something likely to seize ???

my friend thinks its something electrical ? but again, speculative . like I say the engine ticks over fine ! and now it dosent seem to smoke from the exhaust , well not the last time i drove it yesterday, for a good few miles ! no smoke ???

Maybe all the smoke before was burning some **** off, from it being stood ???

the smoke from the engine, is where the sump is missing a corner !!!! a pretty descent oil leak, but been informed can be welded
But yesterday night my friend mentioned this thing about a pipe from the sump, or where there should be a pipe !!! but not seeing anywhere for it to go ! could be a red hering !

Do you think I should invest in a MAF ? Just to rule it out !

Just wanted to re sumerise !


Just spoke to my mechanic friend, he wants to change some solenoids, the ones already mentioned,that the pipe off the waste gauge go's to ! he says there's still no vaccum.

I mentioned Im still dubious about the MAF sensor ! Its an expensive thing to rule out, but think i should attempt to, we did do a live diagnostic check as i already mentioned, that showed its % fluctuating with the revs, whether this means its working or not i dont know, but there was movement !!!

But he thinks the MAF sensor would bring up a fault, or if it wasnt working, it wouldnt show movement on the live data ??? what u fink ???

I told him of my observation on the morning, whereby i went out to the car, wouldnt get more than 2000revs, but on finally getting the MAF sensor off, the first few seconds when i revved it were no different, but then the engine gradually built up to 3100 revs, there was a hell of a lot of black/grey smoke ( i know firmly believe unburnt fuel )
took it to the 1st garage, all of which ive gone over, but on picking the car up at dinner time and driving away, I assume all the unburnt fuel had gone, and it was revving along at 3100, with no smoke whatsoever !!!

Im sure i read a post saying that once you take the MAF off it will idle iractically ???

Or if was the MAF ! wouldnt it rev over the 3000, and the turbo kick in ????