Hi All,

Please can anyone help. I have a '97 FIAT Brava 1.4sx

Three days ago, the car was perfectly ok. All I did a couple of days ago was to give it a wash. But I did not drive it at all over after that and for the past two days.

This morning, I tried to start the car, it would crank but it just would not fire up. All the instrument lights come on and go off in the normal way.

I have looked in the engine bay, and nothing was wet or damp. Might be a bit cold this morning, but it has been a lot colder before and the car had no problems.

I have checked all around for loose connections and the fuses, all these seem ok.

I have changed spark plug leads and tried to start again...still the same.

I took out the spark plugs, and they seem to have some oil on the tip. The tip was slightly black which I could clean off. There were also some slight dirt around the top of the thread. Thinking that this might be the problem, I changed all the spark plugs and tried to start the car again, but still no go...still the same.

I checked the oil level (2500 miles since oil change), and it was in between the MAX/MIN mark, so does not look like too much oil.

The car is 80% full of fuel and I believe the fuel pump is working, as you can hear it when you turn the key and the instrument lights first come on.

I am baffled.

I have stopped trying for now, as I feel the battery is probably loosing all it's charge...so charging it back up at the moment.

Seems quite weird that the car was perfectly ok 3 days ago, and suddenly decides to give after two days of standing.

Anyone with any ideas on what might be the problem ? Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

As you said "was to give it a wash"

Probably wet spark plug cables and the ignition coil socket & also wet other wiring harness.

Hi Subija,

Oops. I really did not give the engine a wash. Honest ! The "wash" I gave the car was exterior only (body panels and windows), not in the engine bay at all. Washing the engine bay is the last thing I will ever do. I wouldn't dare !

Although I used a garden hose, I did not direct the hose anywhere at the engine bay (i.e. front or underneath). All I did was to wash down the doors and a little over the bonnet. Though I understand that water will go through any gap it finds, I could not see how it could get into the engine bay, especially around the spark plug and spark plug wires area. I checked this area out and everything is dry, no droplets of water anywhere.

Anyway, this evening, with a fully charged battery, I decided to have another good go at the car. This time, turned the ignition to the crank position and just held it there with the accelerator pedal depressed. After 10-20 seconds of continuous cranking, I heard the engine starting to fire up. Switched off to let the poor car get it's breath back (and mine). On my second attempt, again after 10-20 seconds, it fired up into life. What a relief !

I have since then driven it around...touch wood...everything seems ok. Stopped a few times and switched the engine off then on. Fires up normally now.

Just thinking back, if I did the same thing in the morning, the car might have fired up.

I am sure that starting the car like this could lead to some damage. Just out of curiosity, what damage could be caused by starting a car like this? I just hope I haven't caused any serious damage. Hopefully I won't be doing this again.

It's quite worrying that washing your car could cause this type of problem. I have washed my previous cars in much the same way without any issues. Just think of the consequence if I used an automated car (or Jet) wash !

So weird. I now have to think very carefully the next time the car needs a wash. Perhaps, it needs to be a "dry clean" next time.

Thanks again for your reply, Subija. Much appreciated
Cheers

Hi Ya

what a bummer eh! I have washed my engine 1.2 sx , with an industrial steam cleaner twice, engine ok, and I wash under the car [engine area]with a hose every time it gets it's normal wash all ok.
But I did have an Escort once, evey time it was cold [damp] it would take ages to start, I opened bonnet one cold evening and there where tracking sparks every where from HT leads, but car did not miss fire?? you can see them in the dark so it could be that, it might have been the wash then left standing in the cold and condensation has built up, around coil, and may be slightly leaking HT leads.
just a thought, at least its running again.

that way of starting is as 4 a flooded engine.happened 2 my 1.6 once somtime back.on reflection i had depresseed the acclerater peddel twice before starting.result 1 flooded engine,more cranking more fuel no go.starting with your foot to the floor will start a flooded engine after a whlie.if it happens more often you will need to get the mixture checked.are u sure the battery was strong enugh 2 start it to begin with.
if it was not the fuel gets pumped through but without enough umph 2 start it.flooding the engine.

Hi again Thrisey,

I hope there won't be a next time. But if the unfortunate happens again, Maybe I check that. When I managed to start the car, it was quite dark outside. I had the bonnet open, and I did not see any sparks. Mind you, I was not looking at the engine bay at the time. My eyes permanently focused on the battery light, thinking that the battery will die very soon if the car won't start.

I would put my bets on condensation too as I did not find any water anywhere on and around the engine block.

I think next time I wash the car, I will follow with giving the car a spin afterwards to "shake off" any excess water. Might actually save me from drying the car by hand too ... a sort of "blow-dry" !

This is of course, providing it will start immediately after the car wash !

Thanks for the reply

Hi Rich,

When I took out the spark plugs, I got the feeling I flooded the engine after my initial failed attempts to start the car in the morning. I wasn't going mad with the accelerator pedal then. But I had pressed the accelerator numerous times. I had the cover off the injector unit, so I could hear the injector happily squirting fuel mixture. So could have unintentionally flooded the engine.

You might be right about the battery, as it was gradually losing its charge as I kept trying. However, I did get assisted charging via a car battery charger, and that did not help either. Mind you the charger gave it full whack (full scale 10Amps!...Quite scary really...I would have thought the charger would give (or at least the fuse). Looks like the 10-year old Gunston charger has lived up to it's reputation !

Fortunately, everything is back to normal, and I only need to fire up the car just by turning the key. I never had to assist it with pressing the accelerator.

Since I had the battery out for a good 7hrs of charging, I guess the ECU would be completely reset to it's factory settings. I wonder whether this means the ECU will re-learn and correct the fuel mixture as well ?

I'll have to wait and see if the mpg is better or worse than before.

Thanks for your reply.

If you reset the ecu the fuel economy will initially be worse. Drive the car nice and easy for the first couple of hundred miles and the economy will improve subsequently.

Yes the ECU will pick up the mixture and timings from your driving habits. So it might seem a bit strange for the first few miles (can't remember how far exactly, think after I reset mine it was a little under 200 miles before it was back to normal but in the meantime I got some good power from it).

is the 1.4 fitted with a crank sensor?
Im remembering back to my 1.4 rover where ocationaly it would refuse to start, due to the crank sensor having an intermittent problem on it.

Hi Steve C and Helz,

After resetting the ECU, it does feel like the car is burning up more fuel. After setting off in the mornings, when I pull up to a junction, I feel as the car is keeping it's revs a little higher then normal. Settles down after while.

Anyway, I'm in no rush, so I'm taking it easy and see what happens to the mpg after a couple of hundred miles. On average, I have been getting around 30-35mpg before, so see what happens.

Thanks for your replies.

Hi Scorg,

If you mean the crankshaft sensor, then I believe there is one (says the Haynes manual). I've never really looked to be honest.

I have not had any starting problems before. Only happened after I washed the car. So far, the car has been starting fine as it did before.

My mate also reckons that it is likely to be dampness/condensation around the ignition coil area ("dizzy" he calls it), so not sparking very well or at all. He had a similar problem before and ended up taking the "dizzy" off and cleaning it dry. Then everything was alright after that.

Still, it's quite weird that the car might fail to start after a car wash. Now I know why it is definitely not a good idea to use an automatic car wash as "the car might not come out alive !"

Thanks for your reply.

Automatic car washes are not nice to the Brava - took mine in for one a few weeks ago as I was feeling rather lazy and it came out with 'halos' of mud around the rear lights .

Hey Chuck
yeah is the crankshaft sensor I mean.
does the 1.4 have a destributer cap on it? would of thought it was a coil pack based engine.
It could well be the cap though, My old uno had one that was falling to bits and the car would misfire, only fire on 3 cyl's or refuse to start until it was replaced.