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Old 21-12-2008   #1
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Angry bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

Hi to all fiat fans,ive got an 96 1.4s bravo,its been brilliant for ages but lately its been hard to start from warmed up.The problems got worse since last week when i put a new thermostat in it,europarts item,ive noticed that the ignition coil gets very hot so i tried to move it away from block.It stays cool now but problem persists!If it wont start a fiddle with the electrical connector 5 or 6 times putting on and off usually gets it going,is it the coil breaking down as when its cold it starts fine??i changed the therm as the old one was stuck open which made injector light occasionally come on plus heater didnt heat up,this solved the igniter prob! sorry to be long winded but thought it best to explain fully-hope one of you out there can point me in the right direction.Thanks for your time!!!!
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Old 06-01-2009   #2
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Question Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

Quote Originally Posted by martmach1 View Post
Hi to all fiat fans,ive got an 96 1.4s bravo,its been brilliant for ages but lately its been hard to start from warmed up.The problems got worse since last week when i put a new thermostat in it,europarts item,ive noticed that the ignition coil gets very hot so i tried to move it away from block.It stays cool now but problem persists!If it wont start a fiddle with the electrical connector 5 or 6 times putting on and off usually gets it going,is it the coil breaking down as when its cold it starts fine??i changed the therm as the old one was stuck open which made injector light occasionally come on plus heater didnt heat up,this solved the igniter prob! sorry to be long winded but thought it best to explain fully-hope one of you out there can point me in the right direction.Thanks for your time!!!!
Well i see that 43 people have looked at my question-however no one seems able to help my problem!! its still doing the same thing,when warmed up turns over but will not start,open bonnet disconnect electrical connector to coil,replace,do a few more times,push new plug leads on coil,jiggle loom above coil(the one with around 14 wires in it)and hey presto it starts! WHY though??
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Old 06-01-2009   #3
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

It sounds like your Crank positin sensor which feeds info to the ECU on the position of the crankshaft, in short the ECU uses the info to squirt the petrol and fire a spark at the appropriate time.

Does it cut out once it has warmed up?
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Old 07-01-2009   #4
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

hi mate just in from work and saw your question.It does'nt cut out-its only if you turn the ignition off that the prob starts,if its warmed up that is.when cold ie a very short trip,switch off and it will re start no probs! its becoming awkward when it needs fuel as it may or may no re start until i fiddle under bonnet?thats a pain so trying to find a way of fixing it.Where is this crank sensor & how would i go about checking it? thanks for your reply mr purple throbber..
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Old 08-01-2009   #5
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

Carry a pair of pliers in the car with you when it goes again you will need some one with you though remove the HT leads from the sparkplugs keep them apart or you will have them ark! Hold the HT lead with a pair of pliers and get somebody 2 turn the engine over if you get a spark its not your crank sensor
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Old 08-01-2009   #6
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

Quote Originally Posted by fiat_-_bravo View Post
Carry a pair of pliers in the car with you when it goes again you will need some one with you though remove the HT leads from the sparkplugs keep them apart or you will have them ark! Hold the HT lead with a pair of pliers and get somebody 2 turn the engine over if you get a spark its not your crank sensor
thanks mr throb i will try that this weekend,cheers for your help.I will post my results sunday.
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Old 08-01-2009   #7
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

Make sure you use pliers to hold the HT leads though because you will get a shock even if you hold the plastic insulation
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Old 11-01-2009   #8
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

Hi again,ive tried your suggested test mr throb,did it when dark and found no1,no4 no spark.only no2,no3 ok?is that the CPS faulty or the coil pack as noticed a blue pulsing light on one lead/coil end when cranking over so re arranged leads to seperate them which seemed to fix it?also is the cps down by starter motor on gearcase by flywheel wit 3 wires going to it bue,back strip yellow & brown?also has black placky top to it.if not what is that,any ideas mate? thanks for helping! ttfn.
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Old 12-01-2009   #9
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

Quote Originally Posted by martmach1 View Post
Hi again,ive tried your suggested test mr throb,did it when dark and found no1,no4 no spark.only no2,no3 ok?.
I'm still convinced it is your CPS beacuse the firing order is 1-3-4-2 so cylinder 1 fires then cylinder 3, cylinder 4, and cylinder 2. The CPS sends a signal to the ignition to fire number 1 cylinder then the ignition module takes over and fires 3-4-2, So if there is no signal from the CPS number 1 won't fire, and that is why 4 is dead as well I don't know how much mechanical knowledge you have but if you can't understand why number 1 not firing will affect number 4 let me know and I will explain.

Quote Originally Posted by martmach1 View Post
is that the CPS faulty or the coil pack as noticed a blue pulsing light on one lead/coil end when cranking over so re arranged leads to seperate them which seemed to fix it?
That sounds like you need a new set of HT leads tbh. Did the ca start when you re-aranged the leads?

Quote Originally Posted by martmach1 View Post
also is the cps down by starter motor on gearcase by flywheel wit 3 wires going to it bue,back strip yellow & brown?also has black placky top to it.if not what is that,any ideas mate? thanks for helping! ttfn.
That sounds like your speedo sensor tbh which sits on top of the diff. iirc from when I changed mt speedo sensor it has a blue piece of insulation that does not fully cover the wiring. It's a black cylindrical shape that sticks out the top of the gearbox rite at the back.
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Last edited by fiat_-_bravo; 12-01-2009 at 00:17.
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Old 12-01-2009   #10
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

I understand what that means with firing order but why would it only play up when warmed up as it starts perfectly when cold?I have fitted new HT LEADS about 2wks ago.When i re arranged the leads it stopped arching.Lastly if it stops raining today i will check out where you say the CPS is,but doubtful its going to stop before it gets dark! when i do get to do it can it be cleaned or is it a throw away part?any ideas? CHEERS FOR HELP ...
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Old 12-01-2009   #11
Bravo 1.8 HLX FTW
 
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

ok i'm thinking cps sensor too as it's a very common fault on that engine

the reasone it will run and then not restart is because the winding in the crank sensor will be more resistant when hot
now when the car is idling at 900 rpm it still produses a good signal for the ecu

howether the starter motor will only turn the engine at 3 or 400 rpm maybe less

not ehouthg to produce a clear signal when the sensor is hot howether when cold it will

this problem if left to go on will eventually stop the car running alltogether

it's on the pulley side of the engine mounted in the casting of the oil pump iirc
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Old 12-01-2009   #12
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

helo sultan,do u require me to bow or are you not a real sultan(lol)Thanks for your input,however i stopped at halfords mega store to get a haynes manual and they say its by the flywheel on the 1.4thats also dumb place for it as makes checking the air gap almost impossible!If i get the thing off is there any magic wand trick to test it?i ve been looking at this manual and it just aint getting any better....
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Old 12-01-2009   #13
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

Yes the CPS is positioned just behind the flywheel bolted to the block.

The Diagram is not very clear but you get an idea of where it is located and how it works.

The first toothed wheel is the flywheel then the 2nd smaller toothed wheel is the wheel the sensor gets its values from which is inside the block

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No you can't clean it up or anything and as sultan said it won't get any better only worse and I think they are only around 25 to buy or around 60 if you go to Fiat so you may aswell phone around your local motor factors and just replace it.

If you read at the bottom of the page with the diagram on it tells you what resitance values it should be producing, but you would need a multimeter and tbh it is'nt really going to prove anything.

Hope this helps.
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Last edited by fiat_-_bravo; 12-01-2009 at 23:48.
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Old 13-01-2009   #14
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

okey dokey sounds like i need one CPS then,i l ring around tomorrow then with luck it will be ok,let all of you know when its done.(with a new one do you put any shims off the old one back on as the depth has to be exact or surely it wont work)??i hate modern cars too many sensors!!! Thanks again to mr throb and mr sultan also...
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Old 13-01-2009   #15
Bravo 1.8 HLX FTW
 
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

the gap is in the manual but it's only for show you will never need to check it

the new and old sensors all bolt rite in no need to check it doesn't actually have to be that accurate i mean look at the tolerance on it
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