did you used to be called "the artful dodger"once then?lol,i ve had mates put shock absorbers down wellie boots in the old days but srappys down this way have got to organised bring back piles of cars before health & safety took over! Anyways worth a go with coil,least it would eliminate that eh. cheers ttfn.
Technical bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot
- Thread starter martmach1
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Technical bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot
Power steering pump is the biggest item I've managed to get out without paying for.
But I think 1 of the scrapyard's I use or should I say used has seen me because i went there a few weeks ago he shot out the hut said what you after, I replied Fiat Bravo he said we have'nt got 1 at that i turned round and saw 1 2nd car up I said theres 1 there he said you cant take parts off that.
So i went I've seen the size of the grease monkies there
and I don't want to upset them.
But I think 1 of the scrapyard's I use or should I say used has seen me because i went there a few weeks ago he shot out the hut said what you after, I replied Fiat Bravo he said we have'nt got 1 at that i turned round and saw 1 2nd car up I said theres 1 there he said you cant take parts off that.
So i went I've seen the size of the grease monkies there
and I don't want to upset them.
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I FINALLY ADMIT DEFEAT!!!put another coil on when it would'nt start up and no different.put mine back on mess about with ht leads and after around 8 attempts "right as rain".Any one want a tempermental bravo cos iam really bored with it.
steviebaby
New member
Hi, sorry to see you're having the dreaded hot-start problem.
I will be waiting to see if you ever get to solve this. My wife's 1.4 Brava started to do the same about 18 months ago. With the engine hot it will run OK and restart immediately if it stalls in traffic. It won't start if when hot, it is left for a few minutes. It needs to be left for an hour or two, at which point it fires up OK.
So far I have changed:
Fuel pump
Crank position sensor
Ignition coil
ECU (for a brand new unit)
Temperature sensor
Plugs
Plug leads
Oxygen sensor
Knock sensor
Battery
Starter motor (just in case it was dragging the supply voltage down).
If there is anything left I've missed maybe sombody on the forum can advise me. It could be that the time you leave the engine makes the difference, not any electrical connections you might move about. With the insurance shortly due for renewal we now have to decide whether the keep the Brava or ditch it. In the past year it has only been used for the odd journey to the airport. When we return it always fires up first time from cold.
Best of luck!
sorry you have same problem steve,looks like you have changed most bits,i think were not alone with this problem!
my other car is a 71 mustang(hence my name-mach1)now thats a "real car" eh.
also play with a dr350!
cheers mate.
my other car is a 71 mustang(hence my name-mach1)now thats a "real car" eh.
also play with a dr350!
cheers mate.
bring it my house i'll have a look
you need to start checking powers and earths when it's hot and see whats lacking
hydraulic tappets might not be opening valves properly at starting speeds when hot maybe but i doubt it
hot starter motor taking too much current posability
park on a hill wile hot and bump it
you need to start checking powers and earths when it's hot and see whats lacking
hydraulic tappets might not be opening valves properly at starting speeds when hot maybe but i doubt it
hot starter motor taking too much current posability
park on a hill wile hot and bump it
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STEVIEBABY have you had your fiat plugged into a "diagonastic" wotsit to get any error codes?only iam debating getting mine checked out but dont want to spend more cash for nothing.please let me know. thanks for more ideas Sultan,keep em comin dude!
steviebaby
New member
Hi again - I could take the car to a garage get it on their diagnostics equipment. The problem is we're in the Isle of Man so we don't have much choice of garage. I only know of one garage that has the equipment and I had a very bad experience with them. Three years ago the Brava needed a new camshaft. I bought a complete new kit, followers, lifters and gaskets. The garage agreed to fit the kit while were were away on holiday and advised me that the work would be £300 - £350. We returned two weeks later to a bill of over £1500; much more than the car was worth. The garage told me that they had numerous problems with stripped threads in the cylinder head and had to machine these out and fit inserts. Although far from happy I paid the bill, believing the car would be OK for many miles to come.
A year later the new camshaft began making horrible noises. When I checked it I found that the stripped threads in the head (for the camshaft carrier bolts) had not been repaired at all. The bolts had simply been pushed into the holes. This caused a lack of oil pressure to the spray bar and failure of the new camshaft in less than 4,000 miles. I got another camshaft kit and fitted it myself. The stripped holes I re-threaded and repaired with helicoil inserts.
After being reassembled the engine ran really well - until the hot starting problem. I have actually tried to start it by rolling it down a steep hill when hot but it won't fire at all. Today I had a further look at it. After getting the engine hot I then left it the required 10 minutes. As usual it would spin round OK but refused to fire. I checked the spark and indeed there a nice big fat spark at the HT lead. I checked the voltage on positive supply to the injector and got the full +12 volts. I wasn't able to detect anything on the negative feed. The injector is operated directly from the ECU, putting out a 'switched' -12 volts.
It appears that for whatever reason the ECU isn't operating the injector when it is hot. As I have changed every sensor and the ECU itself I am still at a loss. I suppose I need to decide whether to scrap the car or take it back to the 'rip off' garage. The problem is I have read of similar hot starting stories which have defeated Fiat dealers with diagnostic equipment. Maybe somebody on this forum will come up with something.
Your Mustang sounds good. There aren't many cars that fire up any enthusiam for me but that is one! Yep - I still remember seeing Bullitt at the pictures many years ago. Steve McQueen could certainly drive (and ride).
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Sounds a real nightmare story steviebaby,sad that these great little cars suddenly decide to go tempremental when warm,ive got off lightly compared to the story about yours!
Maybe i will try the diagnostic test route its £35 + vat locally.Thanks for the prompt reply-as for the "king of cool" yep there was a bloke to admire,he certainly had a lot of boys toys through out his lifetime and that famous gt350 car chase gets a regular airing on my dvd player!!! Mustangs give great smiles per gallon,cheers mate.
Maybe i will try the diagnostic test route its £35 + vat locally.Thanks for the prompt reply-as for the "king of cool" yep there was a bloke to admire,he certainly had a lot of boys toys through out his lifetime and that famous gt350 car chase gets a regular airing on my dvd player!!! Mustangs give great smiles per gallon,cheers mate.
Few hints on similar problem from other forums:
1) check if fuel tank breather hose is clogged.
2) check if no air bubbles are in fuel pump feeding hose (use transparent hoses)
3) check compression when engine is hot.
Can't really explain in more detail why the above would matter in your case, but based on the discussion I'd say the problem is rather on the fuel side than on the electrical one... Good luck.
1) check if fuel tank breather hose is clogged.
2) check if no air bubbles are in fuel pump feeding hose (use transparent hoses)
3) check compression when engine is hot.
Can't really explain in more detail why the above would matter in your case, but based on the discussion I'd say the problem is rather on the fuel side than on the electrical one... Good luck.
so you got a spark when it was hot and not firing
maybe a duff injector but it's unheard of
has anyone changed the fuel filter
maybe a duff injector but it's unheard of
has anyone changed the fuel filter
steviebaby
New member
so you got a spark when it was hot and not firing
maybe a duff injector but it's unheard of
has anyone changed the fuel filter
Sultan - the spark was great while the engine was in its 'hot-not-starting' mode. It may well be the injector. The trouble with trying to meter things is that once a wiring connection is open the ECU just see it as a fault and shuts down. When it's running I did check the voltage drop across the injector wires and got a 1.5 volt difference. My plan is to see what voltage drop I get, if any, when it is turning over while hot and not starting. When running cold or hot it is fine. If the engine stalls or is switched off it will restart immediately. The fault only occurs when left for more than a few minutes. Then it does not fire at all. The engine will spin up OK, but just not fire.
I think it safe to rule out mechanical wear or (as someone suggested) or a blown head gasket. I tried driving the car to the top of an humungous hill. Switched off for a few minutes and tried to start it on the starter. As expected no joy. I then rolled the car downhill for close on a mile........nothing. I got a lift back home. On return, with a cold engine it fired up immediately. There is no middle ground, it fires up or doesn't.
Having trawled the 'net I have found a few people who experienced this problem; but not one solution to it. I haven't found any mention of a duff injector anywhere but this will be the last thing to check. If Mach_1 does get his beast plugged into the diagnostics I'd certainly love to know the result.
infact if you remove the air box you can see wile it's running what the injector spraying looks like loads of pulses of fuel hitting the back of the throttle
maybe you could get it going faulty and have a look in there and see if it is indeed injecting should also here the injector there quite loud
if it is then maybe an air leak that only happens when hot due to expansion or something
The Professor
New member
This is a bit of a long shot and I'm not up to speed on the 1.4 engine, but could it be the ECU's coolant temperature sensor playing up? I've had a case in the past where a dodgy sensor caused the SPI unit not to spray fuel in certain conditions - fine cold, a pig when hot. The other condition I've had that's caused similar symptoms was a leaking inlet manifold gasket.
Tried disconnecting that sensor when normal temps reached let it run till fan cuts in then switch off with it disconnected,still wont fire up.Manual states that if its not working correctly the ECU uses its own readings to keep it going-thought about changing it cost £tenner ish but where do you stop with trying this trying that!!
thanks for help fiat fans.
if the crank end float was taking the crank sensor away from it's position when hot it wouldnt spark like it is
and it would float in the middle anyway when the clutch not pressed
I've seen it once - the clearance was immense. It has a perfect compression, consumption was fine, worked fine and starts like a charm when cold. When the engine is hot it refuses to start as the battery is bad but it was a new one. That was because the engine was overheated and sorry to say but it needed total engine repair and new shafts.
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