General Dash led and engine performance

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General Dash led and engine performance

evo149

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Hi, if anyone can help please,

Recently this fault led has lit up on the dash. It comes on when the car is started and stays on for a few minutes. It comes back on after a while. Perhaps i shouldnt drive it much until the fault is fixed.

ignition.jpg
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I'm finding the car has lost power and sounds like a tractor when accelerating. On idle inspection the engine seems to be rocking around more too as if its struggling.

Today i changed the spark plugs but it has made no difference. The old ones that were removed are black and sooty. Should i try anything else or best to take it to a garage? I'm thinking either new HT leads or a coil pack could be the solution. But not sure if im on the right track or could the fault be something completely different?

thanks
 
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Model would proabably help :)

Mine did that and it was the injectors. That could be any one of several things.
 
my money is on a 1.6 with an injector fault.

if you do have a 1.6 then the first thing to do is measure the resistance of all the injectors. they need to be 14-16.5ohms, any less than 13ohms are fauly and need to be replaced. you can eaisly measure the resistance using the wiring connector at the end of the fuel rail. centre pin is earth and the other 4 ppics are for the injectors, so get your multimeter out.

1.6 scrapyard injectors are cheap and plentiful, but measure the resistance before you buy.
 
my money is on a 1.6 with an injector fault.

if you do have a 1.6 then the first thing to do is measure the resistance of all the injectors. they need to be 14-16.5ohms, any less than 13ohms are fauly and need to be replaced. you can eaisly measure the resistance using the wiring connector at the end of the fuel rail. centre pin is earth and the other 4 ppics are for the injectors, so get your multimeter out.

1.6 scrapyard injectors are cheap and plentiful, but measure the resistance before you buy.

Exactly what happened to mine (y)
 
hi and thanks for your responses. Yes its a 1.6 bravo. I dont know if i should try changing the leads and coils. Both of you think its the injectors :idea: . Would it be a difficult job to replace injectors? Ive got a manual and some tools but still not sure i have the confidence to take on this job. How long would it take to remove the throttle body and access the injectors etc?

Tried to source some HT leads or coils today but halfords dont have them in stock. Dont know if its just around here but seems to be hard sourcing components. Would something like this be right? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FIAT-BRAVA-BRAVO-COIL-PACK-8-12-16-V-1-2-1-4-ENGINES_W0QQitemZ280260058284QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280260058284&_trkparms=72%3A1090%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
 
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TBH i'd check injectors before spending money on other parts.

jug would know for sure, but I dont think the coils/sparkplugs/leads would cause the light to come on.

Checking the injectors is easy.

Copied from one of jug's posts

the easiest way to check if you have an injector problem is to measure the resistacne of all injectors with a multimeter.

to measure the resistance of the injectors, disconnect the injector wiring harness connector. this is at the right hand side of the fuel rail when looking in engine bay. inside the connector there are 5 pins. the centre pin is the earth. touch the black terminal of the multimeter on this pin. the other 4 pins are each for an injector. touch the red terminal of the multimeter on each of these pins, making a note of the resistance for each pin.

each injector should have a resistance between 14.5-15ohms. if any are lower than 13ohms i would replace them.

a brief DIY guide for replacing an injector is:
remove the 2 bolts holding upper inlet manifold to head
-reomve 2 bolts holding dip stick to manifold and rotate the dip stick pipe out the way
-remove 5 torx bolts holding upper inlet manifold to lower inlet manifold
-remove the 2 bolts lines from the back left of the upper inlet manifold
-remove the 2 torx bolts holding the bracket for the 2 fuel lines to the upper inlet manifold (back left)
-raise the upper inlet manifold a few inches by wedging something underneath it.
-remove the bracket at the right hand side of the lower inlet manifold. cant remember what its for but theres 2 bolts, one at top one at bottom. bottom one is hard to get at. use an open ended offset spanner.
-remove the 3 torx bolts that hold the fuel rail to the head
-pull the fuel rail (hard) so the injectors are clear of the head
-slide the fuel rail to the right so it can be removed, this may require the battery to be removed for clearnance, and the fuel lines will need to be slid along to the right as well
-remove the fuel injector wiring harness from the fuel rail
-remove the injectors (each one has a metal clip)
 
coil and HT leads are both possibilies, but its free and easy to check your injector first, so definately do that before you spend money.

dont go to halfords for parts. your local motorfactor will be cheaper and can get the parts within a few hours if they are out of stock.
 
Quick update here. i decided not to order any parts yet. but have been quoted £72.99 for the coil pack and £25 for the leads from motorfactors. Is this about right?

Also had a chance to test the injector wiring plug today as described above. I hope i have been checking the right connector (pics attached).

connector1.jpg
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connector2.jpg
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The readings i have gotten are:
1 - Dead
2 - 15.5
3 - 15.6
4 - 9.7

So according to the test results two of the injectors are probably faulty??
 
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Looks like the right one and yes 2 are dead if thats the readings :)
 
at least 2 of them are definately keepers. (y) a couple of scrapyard injectors wont cost much, also replace the plugs and leads. coil pack should be fine.

the prices you were quoted are normal.
 
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The car has been at a garage since yesterday to get an estimate for repair. At first they suspected the coil pack and quoted me £130 including parts and labour. Today they have changed their mind and have decided it must be one of the injectors. Apparently they have carried out diagnostics and it came up with some error codes.

I have now been quoted £220-250 to replace the one faulty injector. Broken down this is about £100 for the injector +vat, then £80 for labour.. and i dont know what the rest of it is for... maybe diagnostics. But i can get the car released as it was, unfixed for £45 including vat. After talking to the mechanic over the phone for nearly half an hour i still dont know what to do. They do seem polite and genuine. But i'm not sure if its even worth putting brand new injectors into an engine halfway through its mileage life?

I could get the car released and try to find the parts myself. But how complicated a job would it be for a beginner with a basic toolkit to open parts of the engine and replace injectors? Ive read the instructions earlier in this thread and in the manual. I want to try it but still lack the confidence to do it in case i cant put it all back together. Would you recommend i go ahead and try or best to just go the garage route?
 
If you do it yourself you will have around a £25 bill for 2x injectors replacements.

You have two faulty injectors one dead and one will soon follow.

therefore 2x injectors 100 + vat
and one labour charge. :eek:

If I were you i'd spend a few notes on a selection of tools that will serve you well for years to come and do the job yourself. You will still save a fortune this way (y)
It is not too bad I did mine when badly hung over one New years day. :D
 
they only found the dead injector, not the dying one, so that £45 hasnt even done as much as your own investigation!


give them the £45 because you have no choice now, and then go to your local scrapyard and get a couple of injectors (£10-20) and then fit them yourself (free). job done easy peasy.
 
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Yes i agree completely. And i was thinking the same thing when they got back to me. But I didnt tell the garage that i had already done the testing (credit to very helpful members on this forum). Actually i feel a bit silly taking the car there now because i didnt know new injectors cost about £100 a piece. Then there is labour, vat and whatever else they want to add on. Apparently they did the diagnostic and compression tests on the car but i have no proof of this.

Even if i took the expensive route and got the job done by them, they would probably just replace the one injector and charge me around £200+ for diagnostics, parts and labour. But if a few weeks later the dying injector went completely aswell i'd have to get the same work done again; so that could be around £200 again. For all i know they might get the injectors from a scrappies too and tell me theyve put new ones in. Ok I'm being paranoid now.

Ive paid them today and got the car released. I am seriously thinking about taking the challenge myself. I have a manual but still unsure of a few things if anyone could answer please:

1. Would it be better to remove 1 old injector before i go to the scrappies, so at least i have one to compare with?

2. Would the scrappies already have common engine parts ready and removed from engines or would i need to take my toolbox along and do it myself in the yard?

3. Are Fiat injectors all the same or do i need to get one from the same model car?

4. Do i need to remove the throttle body or depressurise/disconnect fuel lines before removing the covers and fuel rail? Any fuel spillage?

5. Approximately how long should it take a competent mechanic to remove an injector from the car?




thanks
 
1. You can do which ever way you want. taking it from your car 1st will highlight what tools you will require.
Taking from the scrap vehicle will allow you to learn how to remove the injector without worry of breaking anything.

2. Most likely you will need to remove yourself. However is worth asking.

3. it needs to be the same engine size (1.6 16v) and from one with the same type of manifold, phase 1 has an alloy induction manifold and phase 2 has a plastic induction manifold. which ever yours is.. this will be which variant you need the injector from.

4. if the car has been off for a while then pressure should be low. There will be some pressure at the injectors so watch you eyes and use rag to catch any spillage.

5. Don't pressure yourself with time limits. take longer and get it done right.
 
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all i would add is that the haynes manual covers this topic with a good amount of detail, so read through the injector removal process a few times while looking in your enigne bay to take note of what you will need to do and in what order. then you should feel more comfortable. like most things in life its only difficult until you've done it, afterwards it seems easy.
 
Thanks for all the tips folks. I'm going to try and do it. Just need to find the injectors now. I went to a scrapyard today. But they only had one bravo which was a 1.2 12v. There was a Marea with a 1.6 16v but im not sure if that is ok, although it does seem to be the alloy manifold whereas mine is the plastic one. Besides, the marea engine was already taken apart so im not sure if everything i need is there. The fuel rail is in there somewhere i think. I will keep searching.

My own engine:
mine.jpg


and the marea:
scrap1.jpg
scrap2.jpg



thanks
 
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That marea is series 1 engine. Yours is series 2.

Dont know if injectors are interchangeable as one has 2 hole and other has 4 hole.
I would think not though.

I dont know for definite though :)
 
although the injectors are slighty different they will work because the flow rate and operating pressure are the same on both types.

take the little rubber rings off both the ends of all the injectors, its handy to have as many spare rings as possible because when fitting to your car you need to make sure the rubber rings form tight seals.

i'd buy and use all 4 of the marea injectors, then you will have a matching set. just make sure they all have a good resistance before you buy. if any are less than 14ohms i wouldnt bother buying it.
 
From that picture of the marea engine would you say all the injectors are there? Sorry i couldnt tell when i was there although the connector and wiring was hanging in there.

Ive been to a couple of scrapyards now but they didnt have bravos. Seems that it might be tricky to find used injectors of the exact model.

So instead I'm now considering buying one new injector and just trying that out to start with. Would that make much difference going from two and a half to perhaps three and a half? Or is it a bad idea to mix new and old?

Ive slowly driven the car for a few miles as it is now. Could this further damage the engine in any way or it should be ok as long as i dont go over 30mph?

Also my mot is due later this month. Would this type of engine fault fail the mot or it would still be allowed to pass?


cheers
 
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