Hi Every1!

Ok... i have a 1999 v-reg fiat brava 80sx 1.2 16v.

Firstly i have read many threads regarding this but i 'd appreciate some help with my particular situation.

At the start of December it struggled to start, it turned over and after a while it fired up and i was off. I assumed it was due to the nasty frost that night. However it got worse over the next few days and the turning over was slower and intermittent in the end i had to keep using my dads portable jump starter pack which helped.

I resorted to buying a new battery a the week before xmas and it worked fine, i then went away for a week. On my return the car started fine again so i thought great it was the battery.........2 days later and it wouldn't start. it turned over slowly and painfully as if struggling to breath! so i had to use the the old discovery to get to work! I now think it is safe to assume that the battery didn't need replacing and that it is a starter motor problem???? My father says that is most likely and could be sorted by taking it off and greasing it?????

I am quite savvy when it comes to repairs etc on cars doing a few jobs like brake pads replacing, exhaust front pipe replaced, oil filter and oil renewed and i do have a fairly decent tool range.

I had the car up on the ramps tonight and located the starter motor and as far as i can see there are two bolts mounting the starter motor to the car and there are a few wires connected at two terminals to the solenoid. Is this all there is??? it is quite awkward to access too so do i need to remove some other parts to gain access????

My other worry is that i do not have the red key for my car so if i disconnect the battery to do this work will i need the red key once i have finished and reconnected the battery????

Lastly thank you very much for your patience i know its a bit of a novel but i wanted to be as informative as possible to help you all with any advice.

Sounds like a faulty starter motor but also maybe its not, so i suggest you to try cleaning the earth wire that goes to the starter motor to chassis from any erosion and also check the earth cable from the battery for any erosion (erosion and humidity can be a reason for not letting pass enough current) and grease this place for provending to reappear any erosion, and if you not see any difference try to have a bigger diameter cable for earthing from the battery to chassis and from the starter motor to chassis.

it sounds like the alternator isnt charging the battery. charge the battery then check the voltage across the battery with the engine running. it should be 14.4v with no electrics switched on, and AT LEAST 13.99v with all electrics switched on (radio, lights, demister, air etc.). if either or both of your results are lower then you have an alternator problem.

it cant be the starter motor because the engine turns over at full speed with a fully charged battery.

jug said:

it sounds like the alternator isnt charging the battery. charge the battery then check the voltage across the battery with the engine running. it should be 14.4v with no electrics switched on, and AT LEAST 13.99v with all electrics switched on (radio, lights, demister, air etc.). if either or both of your results are lower then you have an alternator problem.

it cant be the starter motor because the engine turns over at full speed with a fully charged battery.

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:yeahthat: if the alternator turns out ok then it could be that you have a short or something draining the power it definitely wont be your starter.

yep testing for a drain would be the next thing on the list

use a multimeter to measure the amps with ignition switched off. you need to connect the multimeter between the battery negative terminal and the negative lead (disconnect lead from batery then connect multimeter between them).

there should be no current draw with ignition switched off, if there is a draw then you need to find what is using the battery when ignition is switched off.

Thankyou all for your very swift replies.

I work as a bricklayer and the customer has very kindly allowed me to use there computer briefly so after this i may not be able to read or reply again till about 5.30pm today.

Right just to update you all, i had the battery on charge over night and the car started perfectly this morning. Does this suggest that it is not a starter motor problem and infact the alternator not charging the battery whilst the car is running.

Also can any1 tell me about the red key problem related to disconnecting the battery.

Once again thankyou very much for all your help. :worship:

you wont have a problem with disconnecting the battery as you should be aware from when you charged the battery (assuming of course you had the battery disconnected whilst on charge?) the red key is used mainly to program new keys into the system.

jimnewson said:

Right just to update you all, i had the battery on charge over night and the car started perfectly this morning. Does this suggest that it is not a starter motor problem and infact the alternator not charging the battery whilst the car is running.

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it proves that the battery is losing its charge. that means either the alternator isnt charging the battery or there is a drain that is discharging it. either way it cant be the starter motor.


the red key issue wont be a problem.

Ok thanks for clearing up the key issue!!!!!

bandido41: i didn't disconnect the battery to charge it, should i have done???

I'm going to go and jack the car up again and do a multimeter test on the alternator, where abouts should i touch the multimeter's red and black wires on the alternator???

Thankyou all so much for you invaluable knowledge!!!

:worship::worship::worship::worship::worship::worship:

Yes you should never charge a battery whilst it is still connected to the vehicle.

Latest update.......

The car has been jacked up and my next door neighbour who works with electrics for a living came round to help me. the battery read 13.1volts across the terminals when the car was not running (SWITCHED OFF). when started the battery read just over 14volts across the terminals. I then turned every bit of electrical equipment on in the car and the battery dropped to 13.1 volts, my neighbour then told be to rev the car and keep it steady so i did at around 3500revs the battery then read just over 14 volts whilst revving. My neighbour told me that this means the alternator is working fine as when it is revving it is putting the battery back up to where it should be.

So.....

The battery is fully charged
The alternator works
The starter motor works
The alternator is earthed
The battery is earthed

Here is my next idea:
I am going to drive the car around as normal and the next time it struggles to start my neighbour is going to test everything again to see if any readings are different to those taken tonight.

Please advise if this is a good course of action and any other ideas are completely welcome. Also i am changing the rear windscreen wiper motor tomorrow as mines dead so any tips are more than welcome (i.e. can i test the replacement one i get from the breakers before i buy it because at the breakers near me you remove parts from the cars yourself and i don't want to put it on the car and find it is knackered also????)

:worship:Thanks again to all of you who have replied i really do appreciate it.:worship:

The only thing i can tell you is to be careful to find the same type as your car already has because fiat from the first version bravo -brava(1995) till 2001 versions has changed 3 or 4 type motors and they dont fit all the same as the wire connector also changes to types. I tell you that from personal experience!

Ok i made a successful change of the rear windscreen motor today, cost me £20 from the pikey scrapyard, and yes BRAVARulez the connector was different but luckily i cut the one off the donor car with about 6cm of wire so i just cut the one off my car and connected the donor car connector to the bare ends that were left on my car and hey presto everything works woohoo!!!!!!!!!!1:slayer::slayer:

Its so good now that i dont have a wiper arm stuck midway through the rear window!!!!!!!!!!

As for the starting problem TOUCH WOOD it seems ok at the mo no struggled starting so hopefully the problem has been solve????

Any thankyou all for your help with and all the advice its so good to know that there are people out there that give up there time to help others thankyou all so much.

James

jimnewson said:

My neighbour told me that this means the alternator is working fine as when it is revving it is putting the battery back up to where it should be.

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your neighbour is wrong, the test has proven your alternator is not charging the battery well enough. anything less than 13.99v means you have a problem, 13.1v shows you definately have an alternator problem.