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Old 19-08-2016   #1
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Arrow Actually Dealing with Rust

This will be a long thread, so if you're interested keep reading if not then fair enough..

I've a 2005 Panda and its a fantastic car, I'd keep it forever if I could. But there's the reality of the UK moist weather and its seeming impossible that my car will ever last the years I want it to with my current situation, attached are some photos showing what I mean.

This is not the worst case of rust, I see cars day in day out, mostly original Focus's with rust all over them and owners who don't tend to care. That's fine, but I'm not one of them owners. It will get worst if left, how fast? Well anyone can speculate, but the weather isn't going to wait for me.

I've posted a few times, had some great advice, but the real hump I need to get over is everybody says "if you interfere by sanding it down you could make things much worse" due to rubbing away the galvanized layer etc, and I see their point. But at the same time, people tackle rust on their vehicles, fences etc and they can't all be unsuccessful. I've got no experience at this, even others I know with good mechanic knowledge don't feel too comfortable in actually engaging in this type of repair with me on my car, they worry we may make it worse.

I don't care how the finished thing will look, so long as I can be confident I've held back or even paralyzed the rust for the next few years enough to not worry about it.

Problem 1:
Inside the engine bay, on the chassis neck / crash supports there's what I believe to be surface rust. Hard to get to with the engine in place, and even with it out, god knows what lingers on the other side of these surfaces. As can be seen in the photos, I've tried Kurust on this. It turned black. Now it's starting to turn orange/brown slowly again. I was too scared to Waxoyl this, after all, sealing rust makes it worse?! How could I have been sure I got the areas I needed to.

Problem 2:
One of the rear wheel arches has some chipped off paint, and a still shiny metal surface still since Feb. I suspect the galvanized layer here is still intact, but the arch generally has rust bubbles still fully concealed by paint. This is on the actual car chassis too, so I cant simply replace a panel.


I'd keep this car forever, but things like this honestly don't go down well with my 'all or nothing' mentality . If it can be fixed, I'm willing to do it or pay to have it done. There's Fiat 500s from the 50's on this forum that have had work done to perfection.. sure, my car isnt a classic, but I honestly don't care for too many other cars that could replace it, and a brand new Fiat / nearly new one is many years away..


I'm going to take it to body shops as they're the only place I think that would be able to fix this 'for' me, albeit at a cost. I would love to give it a go, but so far haven't had the encouragement for what could be good reasons not to. I expect many "forget about it, it's just a Fiat and it'll do you for another year or two"


I would actually consider bringing the car to England if a FF member had enough experience to tackle this with me, but that's unlikely and an extreme idea.


Knowledgable, experienced Fiat Forum-ers, share your knowledge (and criticism) with me on this one

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Old 19-08-2016   #2
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Re: Actually Dealing with Rust

OK, bottom line, there is only one solution on getting rid of the dreaded tin worm, & that is to cut out affected area & replace with new metal. As your pictures show hard to work on areas, to do this properly will involve much time & cost. Putting wax oil on will only mask the situation. It's doable, but only you can decide if it's financially worth it, as I read you won't be tackling the likes of this yourself.
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Old 19-08-2016   #3
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Re: Actually Dealing with Rust

Situation on pictures doesn't look to bad to me.
Use a lot of rustconverter, by the instructions on the bottle, after that, use quality ML/wax spray, again use a lot of it, by the instructions, and use it on a hot day, or in a heated indoor space.
It is a messy job though, so be prepared for that....!

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Old 19-08-2016   #4
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Re: Actually Dealing with Rust

Underlying rust is always there, pictures never really shows the true extent, trust me, I've been in & of the business for a long time. Sure you can fiddle about with holding back the rust for a while, but after that it all comes apparent what you've been masking. Unfortunately there is no easy answer.
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Old 19-08-2016   #5
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Re: Actually Dealing with Rust

When treated the right way, you can stop/hold back rust for years......but it takes time and effort in any way.
I inspect my cars at every oilchange, and if nessecary, use all, or some of the products mentioned above.
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Old 20-08-2016   #6
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Re: Actually Dealing with Rust

Quote Originally Posted by SB1500 View Post
This will be a long thread, so if you're interested keep reading if not then fair enough..

I've a 2005 Panda and its a fantastic car, I'd keep it forever if I could. But there's the reality of the UK moist weather and its seeming impossible that my car will ever last the years I want it to with my current situation, attached are some photos showing what I mean.

I don't care how the finished thing will look, so long as I can be confident I've held back or even paralyzed the rust for the next few years enough to not worry about it.
Hi,
so what did you do as prep. for the kurust..,?

I would pick off the rusty scabs, and scrape any loose paint.

let the Kurust do it's thing

THEN , paint over ( half the job here is keeping the Oxygen -"oxidising" - away from the metal)

probably best to use a primer, then a light coloured base coat..so you'll see the 1st signs of any further rust.

as the others have said.. the under bonnet bits are REALLY bad for access,
so not really viable to cut-out and replace

all you can realistically do is preventative work, and then at least you'll be FULLY AWARE of what is going on, where, and for how long..,
then you'll be in a MUCH beter informed place to know when to finally end the cars service life,

as is a common theme on the forum recently,
the rear suspension is the 1st port of call for life extending maint..,
mine is also due attention in that repsect
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Old 20-08-2016   #7
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Re: Actually Dealing with Rust

Krust is very crap.its a phosphoric acid based solution that just sits on top of the rust and the metal and the rust keeps rusting underneath as you have found.to prove this paint some onto a rusty patch and then after a couple of weeks scrape if off again and you will see it's still rusty underneath.there is one way and one way only to prevent further rusting regardless of what any one says and that is to take the rust patch back to bare metal then paint it with galvanising paint and finally a top coat.forget rubbing down with sandpaper and painting because if you view the patch with a microscope you will see rust still in the pits.i use a product by bilt and hamber that dissolves rust and leaves a bare metal finish.its slow going but at the end of the day if you want to do the job right you need to put the time in .
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Last edited by Michael Dranfield; 20-08-2016 at 23:28. Reason: Tablet downloaded annoying new keyboard.
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Old 21-08-2016   #8
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Re: Actually Dealing with Rust

Indeed. As I said earlier, it's got to done properly or the rust will reappear again.
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Old 21-08-2016   #9
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Re: Actually Dealing with Rust

It's an ongoing battle indeed.
Sometimes you win, sometimes.....not.
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Old 22-08-2016   #10
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Re: Actually Dealing with Rust

Quote Originally Posted by varesecrazy View Post
Hi,
so what did you do as prep. for the kurust..,?

I would pick off the rusty scabs, and scrape any loose paint.

let the Kurust do it's thing

THEN , paint over ( half the job here is keeping the Oxygen -"oxidising" - away from the metal)

probably best to use a primer, then a light coloured base coat..so you'll see the 1st signs of any further rust.

as the others have said.. the under bonnet bits are REALLY bad for access,
so not really viable to cut-out and replace

all you can realistically do is preventative work, and then at least you'll be FULLY AWARE of what is going on, where, and for how long..,
then you'll be in a MUCH beter informed place to know when to finally end the cars service life,

as is a common theme on the forum recently,
the rear suspension is the 1st port of call for life extending maint..,
mine is also due attention in that repsect
I had done nothing other than paint it on, this was because I simply lost hope. I was doing my best, but realised all the voids and small areas I physically couldn't access and just thought 'why seal half the problem'
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Old 22-08-2016   #11
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Re: Actually Dealing with Rust

One of your photos shows rust underneath a seam sealer, you need to scrape the seam sealer off before you can even think of any sort of rust treatment here.
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Old 22-08-2016   #12
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Re: Actually Dealing with Rust

Quote Originally Posted by SB1500 View Post
I had done nothing other than paint it on, this was because I simply lost hope. I was doing my best, but realised all the voids and small areas I physically couldn't access and just thought 'why seal half the problem'
All you are doing with Krust is sealing the problem underneath where you cant see it, if you are working in hard to reach areas a better solution to stop rust in its tracks is to brush some oil on, rust is very porous and the oil will soak deep into the rust and prevent it getting any worse, not very pretty and oil emulsifies with long term exposure to water so you cant just do it once and forget it you need to keep oiling the affected area.
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Old 22-08-2016   #13
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Re: Actually Dealing with Rust

Quote Originally Posted by Michael Dranfield View Post
One of your photos shows rust underneath a seam sealer, you need to scrape the seam sealer off before you can even think of any sort of rust treatment here.
Exactly what I saw. This is not a job for the faint hearted. If you were to attempt this yourself you would need access to the right facilities with the right tools. Do it right or get it professionally looked at, at the very least.
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Old 23-08-2016   #14
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Re: Actually Dealing with Rust

Fortunately , it's 20 years since I've had a really scabby FIAT (Regata 70 - 1984) @120

in your situation ( there is NO POINT paying for a garage to do ANY of this) I would scrape off as much as I can see / access,
attempt to "neutralise" the rust - as you did- then use a rust preventing primer,

THEN - personally I used SMOOTHRITE , hoping it would be thick enough to keep the air away from the effected area, actually worked o.k. but is THICK , NOT PRETTY

however your rusty parts aren't exactly "on show", and you can always use an aerosol to get a close body colour match,as the 3rd "top" coat
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Old 23-08-2016   #15
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Re: Actually Dealing with Rust

I'm thinking of painting over the areas with an old paint brush and used engine oil, that way I can remember to do it at each oil change, thick enough and should at least slow down the rate of it at least!
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