Technical Leaky Gearbox

[doogal]

Barchetta is off the road at the moment having new shocks and springs all round.

Whilst doing the fronts, I have noticed a fair amount of oil on the underside of the gearbox casing. I've not noticed any oil on the garage floor before, so I guess it's not a big leak. Nevertheless I'd like to fix it if I can. Any suggestions as to how - is there a known leak point on the B's gearbox?

Also, how do you fill the gearbox and check the level? I've looked in the workshop manual on the Doc's website, but can't find it.

Cheers

Doog.

 

[docorangepeel]

Hi m8,
I found the guide below on the Barchetta UK club site.

If you look under the car, the gearbox is behind the engine. There's one plug in the bottom, which you can unscrew with an allen key.

The gearbox oil should be much clearer than engine oil you should see the difference when it is draining.

You should also notice a collection of swarf or bits of metal on the gearbox sump plug. This is because there is a magnet on the plug to collect bits of metal so they are not crushed between the cogs, this helps to reduce cog wear in the gearbox.

Then there's a second plug at the front of the gearbox, a little way up for filling up (also allen key). Unscrew this one as well.

When refilling, first put in the bottom plug (of course!), then fill up through the second plug.

The gearbox oil filling hole is just behind the air filter (DTR use this bicycle pump device to inject the oil into the gearbox). By the way not all gearbox oil is red in colour.


This picture is of Redline MTL fully synthetic gearbox oil, the barchetta gearbox takes about 2.5 American Quarts of oil (the units Redline MTL is sold in)


The level is correct when the oil is upto the level of this plug, i.e. when the oil starts to flow out. Easiest is to use a funnel with a hose. You can insert the hose from the engine bay into the hole of the top plug...

Sounds a bit complicated, but actualy quite simple....

This guide was made my Jan Willen so a big thanks for taking the time to make it.

Hope this helps m8 Doc Orange Peel

 

[docorangepeel]

Hi
About the oil leak, are you sure its from the gearbox and not a rubber CV joint on the drive shaft ? Has your B done 60K or more as mine went around that time ?


Doc Orange Peel

 

[doogal]

Thanks, Doc. Excellent assistance as always.

Couple of other q's:

The CV joint you refer to - is that the rubber joint at the gearbox end of the driveshaft? How do you go about replacing it (again - can't find it in the workshop manual pdfs )? Also where did you buy your replacement part? Should I do both sides if I am replacing it?

If it is the CV joint, are there any other symptoms?

I still reckon it might be the gearbox as the leak is more like an oil than the grease I would expect to see from a joint. Will check the levels when the car is horizontal again.

Has anyone used redline MTL in their B gearbox? Is it a good idea?

cheers,
Doog

 

[docorangepeel]

Hi,
You can tell if it’s the CV rubber boot thats gone by simply feeling it with your hand, you’re looking for a split in the rubber like in the picture below, you should see a lot of black sticky oil all over the bottom of the engine but only on the side that has gone. You can see the oil all over the bottom of my engine in the picture. The CV joint will not drip oil that’s why when you said you have not seen any oil on the floor I suspected something else other then the gearbox.

The only other thing you can do is clean the bottom of the engine and then check in a few days for any new oil, that way its easier to pinpoint the oil leak.

If its the CV joint then you pick up the CV kit from Fiat, £12-£15 so no big deal.

Let us know how you get on
Doc Orange Peel

 

[DanGil]

I've got the same engine/gearbox, the input seal on mine was weeping slightly (where the driveshaft goes into the box). Cost's pennys to replace if it is that.

 

[docorangepeel]

Nice one DanGil, it could be that.

 

[doogal]

Thanks to both.

Doc - it's definitely not the CV boot - its intact all the way around. Could have been a CV boot in the past, but the oil looks fresh - just like your photos in fact!!!

Dangil - doesn't look like a leak from around where the shaft goes into the gearbox, but I can't really tell.

I'm now in 2 minds:
1) leave it alone and keep checking the level of the gbox oil.
2) As I have already got both the suspension struts off (and what a s*d of a job that was - the nuts/bolts holding the wishbone to the bottom of the strut were all rusted solid), I could whip the gearbox out, find the leak and also inspect the clutch whilst I'm there. The clutch has a bit of a click and goes stiff on part of the travel so I'm thinking the release bearing may be knackered. I certainly don't want to put the struts back on, drive off up the road and the clutch pack up

What do you reckon? Is taking the gearbox out straightforward or am I going to regret it? Bearing in mind that I'm doing this with the car on axle stands in my garage.

Cheers
Doog.

 

[docorangepeel]

Hi,
I have never taken the gearbox out but I will be doing this as I am going to put a new clutch kit in before the summer. I have my eye on a clutch kit for sale as I type this as it goes. If you do remove the gearbox let me know how you got on.

Doc Orange Peel



PS I will be changing the clutch in my single garage on stands so I hope its not a a nightmare job.

 

[doogal]

Started the process of gearbox removal tonight following the PDF workshop manual kindly supplied by Doc.

Got the battery tray off, airbox out, gear linkage disconnected. Then hit a snag with the clutch cable - basically the little lock nut on end of the cable is siezed solid and rounds off under a spanner. Looks like I'm going to have to cut the clutch cable to get it off and hence will have to put a new one on. Probably not a bad idea to have a new cable at this point anyway as it looks like it might be the original.

Why do Fiat make all their fixings out of cheese?

Stopped for tonight. More updates tomorrow. I must be mad. :nutter:

Doog.

 

[docorangepeel]

Nice work doogle, if you can take some notes and a few pics, this will make a great guide for other B owners and I will add it onto the barchetta mondo website so everyone can find it.

Keep up the good work Doogle

Doc Orange Peel

 

[doogal]

Righty ho. At Doc's request a few notes and photos on the slow progress I'm making with taking the gearbox out of my B.

Here's a photo of the clutch cable showing the nasty little rusty lock nut that wil not budge. As per previous post, I'm going to have to cut the cable to get it off.



Next step is to disconnect the gear linkage:



The linkage just pops off the ball joint, but the clip holding the cable sheath onto the bracket (circled) took lots of effort withe mole grips and a selection of anglo saxon to get it off.

The other part of the linkage (the bit that does across the gate) has a nut that needs undoing:



The trick here is to hold you finger against the back of teh arm otherwise the whole nut/bot assembly just spins. :bang:

Other things tonight - I've taken out the LH wheel arch liner and started undoing the CV joint bolts.

All in all that took an hour.

Doog.

 

[docorangepeel]

Keep up the good work doogle, she will love you for it in the end

 

[Alan.D]

Re the clutch cable did you try heat on the nut? I've go a little pencil type solder iron/blow torch and it's great on these nasty little jobs. Set of mole grips on the other side of the cable set of grips on the little nut if it's rounded and the heat should loosten it.

 

[doogal]

Thanks, Alan. I'll see if I can try that - need to borrow a little blow torch off someone. Most of the threaded section on the end of the cable is also crumbling, so I may still just resort to cutting the cable and buying a new one. Even if I get the nut off I don't think I'd be happy reusing the old cable.

Back out there this morning - it's about 0degC in the garage at the moment. Nice.

Doog.

 

[docorangepeel]

Cut it off and get another one sounds like the only way to go, it does look well past it.

Good luck today, I hope it all goes well.

 

[Alan.D]

Yep Horible time of the year to mess with motors unless you have a heated garage, should have thought a bit more when buying the house

Anyway as said good luck with it, it's always handy someone else doing the job before you need to

 

[doogal]

Thanks, Alan & Doc.

Not much achieved today as the garage was very very cold even with the fan heater on. I thought at one point I as going to expire altogether.

Cut the clutch cable off with a junior hacksaw (essential part of any fiat owners toolkit along with various sets of molegrips, and evidently I need a blowtorch as well...)

Whilst I'm at it, I've also decided to replace the radiator, so I've taken off the air intake trunking at the front of the engine bay. Guess what - all the bolt heads sheared cleanly off upon application of any torque. Nice.

So, I now need to work out how to get the remains of the bolts out. Either that or buy an air induction kit like Doc's got... :tempt:

Alan- hope you are not planning to follow in my footsteps any time soon. I've got until March-ish to get this finished. Slow and steady wins the race...

Happy Christmas
Doog.

 

[doogal]

Slow and steady wins the race...

Alan- just spotted that on the bottom of your sig. wasn't taking the mick, honest

Doog.

 

[Alan.D]

Wouldn't have cared less if you were Mine is off the road end of this month till march/april so I'll drain the fuel tank & spray lot's of wd40 on the bolts