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Old 16-12-2018   #1
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Sump Oil Level

Does anyone know the height clearance between correct oil level and the lowest crankshaft (be that balance weight or conrod big ends).

Ever since new our 2005 "B" has been very tappet noisy / and or variator noisy unless the oil level is at absolute maximum oil level.

The max to min level change requires 0.75 litres of oil. Since new the engine uses typical 1.0 litres per 2K miles, a consumption figure easily with Fiats official figures.

Every top-up results in a nice quiet engine.

So I'm planning on overfilling by modifying a punto HGT dip stick, making a new one or remarking the existing stick, or using a spacer collar for the top of the existing dip stick.

Now the danger of over filling is that when/if the oil level gets to touch the lowest throw of the crank then all hell will be let loose.

So if anyone knows the answer or currently has the sump off their "B" engine then I would appreciate any feedback / info.
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Old 16-12-2018   #2
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Re: Sump Oil Level

i don't have the answer for your question , but i have a dismantled engine block so i can take a look and give you a number
did i get it rigth ?? 1ltr . oil consumption for 2000 miles ( 3218 Km) !!
may i ask wath is the oil viscosity you are using ?
i had some noisy tappets my self (specially in cold engine) , then i changed the oil for Mobil 5w50 and the noise disapear even wen starting , 10w40 is the oem !
my oil consumption in 6200 miles (10000 Km) did not reach 0.5 ltr. !!
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Old 16-12-2018   #3
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Re: Sump Oil Level

On the last top up I actually used 0.5L of 5W40 fully synthetic and 0.25L of 10W40 semi synthetic.

This was technically an error by me as 10W40 semi is the official specification.

I'm of the opinion that 5W40 fully synth is a better objective but also of the view that oil level appears to be critical in the "B" (well later CF3 2005 engines).

If you can do a measurement on your currently dismantled block (mine is a 188A6.000 series engine) than that would be very much appreciated.

Next oil change (due soon) I'll switch to 5W40 fully synthetic. Will certainly do no harm and may prove to be a cure for noisy tappets and variator.
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Old 17-12-2018   #4
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Re: Sump Oil Level

the max. oil level in dip stick is about 3mm lower then the highest point from the moving parts ( conrods ) , the min. is 13mm lower , the tip of dip stick is 48mm lower from conrod and the oil pump intake is about 68mm lower !

conrod lowest point
3mm
max. level
13mm
min. level
48mm
tip of dipstick
68mm
oil pump inlet

i will try to post the photos ! the lowest point (conrod) is about 32mm lower than the beguining of sump (oil pan) / end of engine block !
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Old 18-12-2018   #6
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Re: Sump Oil Level

Thanks JMSG

That information and pictures is very useful.

I'm in the process of assimilating the information.

That is certainly a very deep sump and looks like even if there was no oil on the dip stick oil pump intake is still well buried in oil but lacking "oil head".
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Old 18-12-2018   #7
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Re: Sump Oil Level

Now looking at the pictures, and bearing in mind the block is upside down.

The max oil level is 30mm below block base.
The conrod lowest point is 32mm below block base.

This means that at max oil fill the conrod lowest point is submerged by 2mm in the top of the oil level?

Do you agree?

If so then when the engine is running and the pump pumping the oil level will drop a little and the conrod ends will be just clearing the settled oil level.

That means there is little scope for running with a slightly higher oil level.
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Old 18-12-2018   #8
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Re: Sump Oil Level

An 'outsider' question.

Isnt this the same motor as the
mk2 punto HGT..?

I Would expect a wealth of knowledge in that area.
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Old 18-12-2018   #9
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Re: Sump Oil Level

You burn a litre of oil every 2000 miles ?

Mine's done 141000 miles and I've never topped the oil up ,ever.

That's not really helping.....
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Old 18-12-2018   #10
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Re: Sump Oil Level

I have notice that on mine, when it is overfilled a few mm(3-5) the tapping becomes worst.
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Old 18-12-2018   #11
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Re: Sump Oil Level

Quote Originally Posted by s130 View Post
Now looking at the pictures, and bearing in mind the block is upside down.

The max oil level is 30mm below block base.
The conrod lowest point is 32mm below block base.

This means that at max oil fill the conrod lowest point is submerged by 2mm in the top of the oil level?

Do you agree?

If so then when the engine is running and the pump pumping the oil level will drop a little and the conrod ends will be just clearing the settled oil level.

That means there is little scope for running with a slightly higher oil level.
in uper post i had give you the measurements in relation to the lowest point of moving assembly (conrod ) because you ask for it !
as you see by the pictures , the bloc is upsidedown , and it's easier to give measurements in relation to the end of bloc ... it will be the folowing :

end of bloc to conrod - 32mm
end of bloc to max. oil level - 35mm
end of bloc to min. oil level - 45mm
end of bloc to the tip of dipstick - 80mm
end of bloc to oil pump inlet - 100mm

this measurements are aproximate and be aware that the angle of pictures may induce in paralax error ! taken by cellphone the best i could !
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Last edited by JMSG; 19-12-2018 at 00:23.
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Old 18-12-2018   #12
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Re: Sump Oil Level

Quote Originally Posted by varesecrazy View Post
An 'outsider' question.

Isnt this the same motor as the
mk2 punto HGT..?

I Would expect a wealth of knowledge in that area.
this engine is the 188a6000 it came from a punto hgt , the latest barchettas came with it to, the throtle body is "fly by wire" and 16pin OBD plug , the first barchettas came with the 183a1000 engine with aluminium intake manifold , separated air mass from throtlebody and hittachi ECU in passenger side footwell , the mid barchettas (pre facelift ) came with 183a1000 engine with plastic intake manifold , hittachi ECU in engine bay ,air mass integrated in the throtle body operated by mecanical cable ...
the engine bloc and head from 188a6000 is the same as the 183a1000 the main diferences i see are the timing belt is shorter in the 188a600 do to a diferent radius in water pump pulley , and head gasket is metalic ...
i both this one with a broken timing belt for spare parts to my barchetta 183a1000 , dismantling it i notice besides 4 bend valves and sticky lifters/tappets the engine is in perfect shape and i'm in the process of rebuilding it with some "love " bits
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Last edited by JMSG; 19-12-2018 at 00:00.
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Old 18-12-2018   #13
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Re: Sump Oil Level

Quote Originally Posted by Barchetta Bloke 440 View Post
You burn a litre of oil every 2000 miles ?

Mine's done 141000 miles and I've never topped the oil up ,ever.

That's not really helping.....
i also think s130 engine has a oil consumption problem !
and by the measurements and observation there is no margin to add oil over the max. with out great risk of contacting the moving assemby !!
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Last edited by JMSG; 19-12-2018 at 00:29.
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Old 19-12-2018   #14
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Re: Sump Oil Level

Quote Originally Posted by Barchetta Bloke 440 View Post
You burn a litre of oil every 2000 miles ?

Mine's done 141000 miles and I've never topped the oil up ,ever.

That's not really helping.....
Roughly yes. I have exact logs, and consumption is *very* variable. Our "B" is the 2005 CF3 engine version 188A6.000.

1 litre per 3K miles would be typical. Best was 0.5L & 6179 miles. Worst was 0.5L & 945 miles.

HC on emissions are 37ppm (MOT limit = 200).

The Fiat Tempra 1.8ie twin cam engine had a official average oil consumption of 608 miles per litre of oil (based on 90g/100km & 880g/l) We had that car for over 100,000 miles and were typically at 38% of spec at 1500 miles per litre of oil.

I've yet to find an official figure from Fiat for the Barchetta.
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Old 19-12-2018   #15
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Re: Sump Oil Level

Quote Originally Posted by JMSG View Post
this engine is the 188a6000 it came from a punto hgt , the latest barchettas came with it to, the throtle body is "fly by wire" and 16pin OBD plug , the first barchettas came with the 183a1000 engine with aluminium intake manifold , separated air mass from throtlebody and hittachi ECU in passenger side footwell , the mid barchettas (pre facelift ) came with 183a1000 engine with plastic intake manifold , hittachi ECU in engine bay ,air mass integrated in the throtle body operated by mecanical cable ...
the engine bloc and head from 188a6000 is the same as the 183a1000 the main diferences i see are the timing belt is shorter in the 188a600 do to a diferent radius in water pump pulley , and head gasket is metalic ...
i both this one with a broken timing belt for spare parts to my barchetta 183a1000 , dismantling it i notice besides 4 bend valves and sticky lifters/tappets the engine is in perfect shape and i'm in the process of rebuilding it with some "love " bits
Our Punto HGT (year 2000) had engine 183A1.000 not 188A6.000
Our Barchetta (year 2005) has engine 188A6.000
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