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Old 19-12-2018   #16
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Re: Sump Oil Level

Quote Originally Posted by JMSG View Post
i also think s130 engine has a oil consumption problem !
and by the measurements and observation there is no margin to add oil over the max. with out great risk of contacting the moving assemby !!
Based on post leaded petrol era, Fiat deliberately increased upper cylinder lubrication via valve stems and piston rings passing larger quantities of oil. The increased upper cylinder lubrication was a precautionary measure for the new unleaded era.

Fiat Tempra 1.8ie: Spec. Average = 608 miles per litre of oil (based on 90g/100km & 880g/l)

Fiat Tipo 1.6ie: Spec. Average = 1094 miles per litre of oil (based on 50g/100km & 880g/l)

Since then they have reduced this (if I look at real life figures for the Stilo Abarth, Coupe 20V, Croma 2005, Barchetta 2005 we have owned from new) but prior to unleaded all the Fiats we had used next to or ZERO oil between oil changes.

I'm not concerned about our "B"s consumption. No loss of compression, no piston slap, spark plugs always clean and dry,etc. HCs good. In fact higher oil consumption is not such a bad thing as it means the bores, valve stems and seats are getting well lubricated.
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Last edited by s130; 19-12-2018 at 12:43.
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Old 19-12-2018   #17
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Re: Sump Oil Level

Been reading these threads intently and have now lost the plot
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Old 19-12-2018   #18
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Re: Sump Oil Level

Quote Originally Posted by Noideadave View Post
Been reading these threads intently and have now lost the plot
That is why we drive Fiats

Plot was:

o Noisy tappets / variator when oil level gets low towards min

o Top up from min to max ideal timing - read not drip feeding every week/month

o If there was scope to over top up then at new min level engine would still be quiet

o Evaluate the scope / oil level possibilities.

Zimples! Bog Dan Dip Stick sais
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Old 19-12-2018   #19
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Re: Sump Oil Level

the oil consumption is some way explained ! i just don't understand very well the relation how a higher oil flow lubrification get to higher oil burning !?
why the tapets/variator get noisy wen oil level drops near min. it's a puzle ! have you any teory about it ??
wen they are noisy is in any engine temperature ? only wen cold engine ? only wen engine at operating temperature ? allways ?
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Last edited by JMSG; 19-12-2018 at 19:55.
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Old 20-12-2018   #20
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Re: Sump Oil Level

Higher oil flow is not total pumping but the increased flow of oil down the valve stems and past the piston rings. Those two of the ways oil can get into the cylinders to be burnt. The other is oil vapour via the crank case breather route into the inlet manifold/throttle body.

The tappets and variator are very noisy on first start up after a rest period. Give the engine about 1 or 2 seconds and they all go fairly quiet. As the oil level drops in the sump the time required to go quiet increases from 2 to 3 or 4 seconds. Also at minimum oil level and idle they are noisier than at full oil level.

So one can conclude that (as will all pumps/showers/etc) the "head height" of the fluid above the pump has a marked difference on a pumps ability to pump. The pump is certainly not knackered or bearing shells worn as otherwise I would expect the oil warning light to go out slowly on start up (time for pressure to build) and in a worse case scenario flicker at idle or below idle rpm. Don't have these symptoms either.

Yes I must say it is all a little puzzling. Shame we have not got two "B"s to compare side by side.
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Old 20-12-2018   #21
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Re: Sump Oil Level

I don't know if this helps but some oil filters have a non-return valve in them that stops the oil draining back to the sump from the upper parts of the engine when its turned off. Maybe the valve in the filter is stuck/faulty or possibly the wrong filter has been fiitted

While I'm here, Happy Christmas to you all!
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Old 20-12-2018   #22
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Re: Sump Oil Level

Quote Originally Posted by Davefridge View Post
I don't know if this helps but some oil filters have a non-return valve in them that stops the oil draining back to the sump from the upper parts of the engine when its turned off. Maybe the valve in the filter is stuck/faulty or possibly the wrong filter has been fiitted

While I'm here, Happy Christmas to you all!
Hmmm. Not used one of those filters so will need to research. However all quality filters come with a bypass valve which will allow pumped oil to bypass a clogged filter and thus protect the engine.
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Old 20-12-2018   #23
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Re: Sump Oil Level

Does this apply to our Barchetta oil filters?


https://www.pgfilters.com/blog/funct...ve-oil-filter/
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Old 21-12-2018   #24
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Re: Sump Oil Level

Both Mann & Wix oil filters have anti-drain valves. See link for Wix filter.

http://wixeurope.com/en//find-a-filt...tNumber=WL7091
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Old 22-12-2018   #25
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Re: Sump Oil Level

so ! for what you are telling fiat deliberatly increased " gap" in valve stem sealents and piston rings to increase lubrification and so increasing oil consumption ! do you agree ?
most after market oil filters in our days have the direction valve and the bypass safety valve incorporated , and that helps in faster lubrification wen starting . it's normal in every engine with hidraulic tapets after some time stoped wen starting having noisy tapets for few seconds until they fill up !
it will help if you change to a lower viscosity oil at cold like 5w40 but probably it also increase a bit your oil consumption !
has i told before , i had noisy tapets wen starting , i changed the oil for mobil 5w50 and now the noise disapeared !
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Last edited by JMSG; 22-12-2018 at 20:12.
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Old 24-12-2018   #26
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Re: Sump Oil Level

Quote Originally Posted by JMSG View Post
so ! for what you are telling fiat deliberatly increased " gap" in valve stem sealents and piston rings to increase lubrification and so increasing oil consumption ! do you agree ?
most after market oil filters in our days have the direction valve and the bypass safety valve incorporated , and that helps in faster lubrification wen starting . it's normal in every engine with hidraulic tapets after some time stoped wen starting having noisy tapets for few seconds until they fill up !
it will help if you change to a lower viscosity oil at cold like 5w40 but probably it also increase a bit your oil consumption !
has i told before , i had noisy tapets wen starting , i changed the oil for mobil 5w50 and now the noise disapeared !
Yes Fiat did slacken tolerances off on the early EU unleaded vehicles. This is what I was advised by Fiat Technical back then when I queried the Tempra and Tipo official oil consumption figures. Thankfully things are better these days.

I followed the filter comment about anti drain valve and yes all quality filters have these. Oil draining down from hydraulic tappets is not affected by the filter anti drain valve.

Yes 5W40 will get to pump up the tappets quicker than 10W40 from cold. I plan on moving over to 5W40 at the next service.

My current problem is water ingress damn soft tops
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