Hi guys,

Just went for my MOT after the car had been sitting in one place for over 6 months. Everything went smoothly , apart from many many many issues with the brakes.

This is a real bummer as I spent a long time on the brakes before I moved back over here.

Details:

001 Nearside inner front brake pad(s) less than 1.5mm thick [3.5.1g] Thats ok, I will change it

002 Nearside rear Rear Brake recording little or no effort [3.7.A.4a]

003 Nearside rear parking brake recording little or no effort [3.7.A.7a]

004 Offside rear Rear brake recording little or no effort [3.7.A.4a]

005 Service brake efficiency below requirements [3.7.A.9]

006 Parking brake efficiency below requirements [3.7.A.10]

:bang:

My main concern is the parking brake. I have read horror stories about cable stretching and such.

My thought is that there is something wrong with the caliper causing the problems with brake and parkbrake efficiency. Hopefully not the parking brake separately.

I am really cheesed off because I got the timing belt and mainly the brake pads changed when I lived in Belgium, and the B hasn't done much driving since then. It was at a main dealer and I suspect that they didn't do what they were meant to do. Better check the timing belt. Lol.

This problem with the brakes, and particularly the brake pressure/efficiency, was always an issue with the MOT over there, and I managed to get it through. I vividly remember thoroughly bleeding the brake lines from air bubbles, yet it was still a large problem, which really confused me, as I have been changing pads and discs on my Passat for years which is a NIGHTMARE. I remember there being a cylinder that automatically distributed the fluid equally to each rear brake, or something like that, , is this a concern?

Just to shorten it up, has anyone had such a problem with the rear brakes before? Any help would be appreciated. Knock on wood it is only a seized caliper or something.

Cheers for the all the help you give me,

Chris

Sorry,

I meant the valve with the screw in that sort of distributes the fluid when the car is turning.

Some garages have told me that is the calliper jamming, does this happen a lot?

I doubt it is that though.

I am going to replace all pads on the car as it needs doing on the front, but I have a feeling that the rear ones are covered in something that is causing them to slip. Worth a try.

Cheers,

Chris

I have had near misses on the MOT since I got the car. I have upgraded the front calipers for those from a Brava JTD - straight fit and much bigger pads - after just about setting them on fire on the Isle of Man TT circuit!

The rears have always been a problem too. I now have rear calipers from a Tempra 2.0 - again, much bigger pads. I have also had to pipe out the rear brake pressure compensators to get the back brakes to do more work. A quick test at the MOT station suggests I'll be fine for next years test, even on the legendary poor handbrake.

Hi Rightguard, welcome to the "no handbrake" club. I have changed all the rear brake components on my Barchetta AND by-passed the limiters to increase the performance of the rear brakes. Handbrake is still useless and MOT due in 2 weeks. I have even fitted spacers to effectively shorten the cables but it is still useless. I would be interested if there is a modern alternative to HP's Tempra rear disks and calipers as these are not easily found these days.
I have been hoping to give the new disks and pads a good workout to "bed" them in but the weather in the UK has been horrible for the last few weeks with constant rain and i don't want to take it out in the rain for obvious reasons. Good luck and please share if you find a fix, cheers Brian.

Hi guys.

Just been out to change all of the pads. Front ones done easily. I am a little annoyed as the pads all round had not even touched the wear indicator, But I am not going to bother to argue with Halfords.

I think I found the problem. As I went about changing them, I isolated each wheel and got my son to push the brake pedal as far as he could. All of the pistons on the callipers moved apart from the rear left. It seems that it has seized up.

I think that if this is the problem, then in a sense I am lucky. Lol.

All to do now is take it apart and try to un-seize it.

Thanks very much for your help guys.

Chris

Hi,

I took out the caliper piston and that seemed to be okay. With a huge amount of hope, I fixed it back on etc. and got my son to push the pedal. Still there was resistance and the piston did not move at all.

So, I thought over what it could be and realised that there was hardly/no fluid going through to the problem calliper. I dropped the exhaust and I had a look at that little piece that limits the pressure when cornering, to allow one wheel to not lock up. When my son pressed the pedal, no fluid was coming out of that little piece, so I suspect this is the problem part.

A quick blast of compressed air in the part and I am taking a break now.

It could have been dirt, but I doubt that. I reckon that it is the part that controls the fluid when cornering that I took off.

Any ideas?

Cheers,

Chris

Chris, that's the same caliper that has seized on ours. I have been looking at replacing all the rear braking components. Let me know if your solution works (and save me a LOT of money) I hope...

Crachat said:

Chris, that's the same caliper that has seized on ours. I have been looking at replacing all the rear braking components. Let me know if your solution works (and save me a LOT of money) I hope...

Click to expand...

The problem for me was the brake pressure limiter for the rear left of the car. It would let fluid in, but not out and to the caliper piston.

Of course, it could be a whole manner of problems. I would recommend for you to take the limiter off, which you have to drop the exhaust to do, and it is a nightmare to do. I nearly completely rounded the bolts. Then blow compressed air through the limiter. Then of course bleed the brakes to make sure there is no air in them.

The air could either blow out dirt (no idea how it got there), or it could release the mechanism in it that controls the flow of the fluid.

I also took out the caliper piston but that was before I realised that there was a block somewhere.

That said, for me, that has only got rid of the stuck caliper. I replaced the pads all round, yet to me, it seems like there is the same style of braking when driving as the old pads. By this, I mean that I feel no stronger braking even through there is a un-seized caliper. Very strange.

This is annoying as if I am right, then it will not pass MOT as efficiency/pressure was a problem even on the working caliper.

By the way, the pads and fixed caliper did not fix the handbrake. I am hoping that an adjustment at the handbrake will solve this.

So, I feel that even though I have done much to fix the pressure problem, there is still low pressure going to the back.

I am thinking that it is still a physical problem with the brake limiter. Would it be dangerous or unwise to bypass the limiter? If not, how would I go about doing this?

Cheers,

Chris

Hi Rightguard, you need two lengths of copper brakepipe, approx 15cms long with female connectors. If you are unsure of the size maybe you can remove a pipe going to the rear caliper and take this with you when you have the pipes made. You can them remove the limiters and reconnect the loose ends to the new 15cm pipe. This will slide onto the top of the spring housing where you can secure it with cable ties to prevent any chafing.
I did this and even when using the brakes quite hard the rears did not lock, but having said that, the brakes didn't feel that much different. Unfortunately it has made no difference to the useless handbrake but may do so as the pads and disks should bed in quicker with the increased pressure at the caliper. The brakes will then need completely bleeding, a litre of fluid should be enough. Good luck.

blackydog said:

Hi Rightguard, you need two lengths of copper brakepipe, approx 15cms long with female connectors. If you are unsure of the size maybe you can remove a pipe going to the rear caliper and take this with you when you have the pipes made. You can them remove the limiters and reconnect the loose ends to the new 15cm pipe. This will slide onto the top of the spring housing where you can secure it with cable ties to prevent any chafing.
I did this and even when using the brakes quite hard the rears did not lock, but having said that, the brakes didn't feel that much different. Unfortunately it has made no difference to the useless handbrake but may do so as the pads and disks should bed in quicker with the increased pressure at the caliper. The brakes will then need completely bleeding, a litre of fluid should be enough. Good luck.

Click to expand...

U are crazy doing that on a road car.
I'll dare you to try braking hard when rainy. Or make it a little more extreme in a corner...

Bet you'll wish you had those rear limiters in there afterall

Is this any help?

Pretty sure you can adjust the brake bias by changing the spring tension. The image i believe to be from an alfa 155 manual, so a barchetta requirements may be different, but i expect it to be the same.

And as for the pads being under 1.5mm, you generally can't tell during an MoT. They tend to look for the brake pots being perhaps more extended than would perhaps appear normal.

maddogmorg said:

Is this any help?

Pretty sure you can adjust the brake bias by changing the spring tension. The image i believe to be from an alfa 155 manual, so a barchetta requirements may be different, but i expect it to be the same.

And as for the pads being under 1.5mm, you generally can't tell during an MoT. They tend to look for the brake pots being perhaps more extended than would perhaps appear normal.

Click to expand...

Hmmm, I think that that is a different system to the barchetta's. Thanks for the input though.

I have a feeling that I have to replace them. I think that they are 50 quid each at the dealer, unless this one will work?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-PUNT...13632&pid=100015&prg=1006&rk=1&#ht_712wt_1270

Looks almost exactly the same. I don't really want to bypass them if it could be dangerous, like Bollie says, also, they will probably notice at the MOT. Lol.

I just noticed today that the pads are not at all bedded in. Basically only the chamfer is touching which is probably 30% of the Surface Area. Maybe when they are bedded it will be better.

Thanks,

Chris

bollie69 said:

U are crazy doing that on a road car.
I'll dare you to try braking hard when rainy. Or make it a little more extreme in a corner...

Bet you'll wish you had those rear limiters in there afterall

Click to expand...

I've got mine removed and the brakes are vastly improved. The brake balance is fine too, according to the MOT Tester. The only time it shows very high rear brake effort is with enough pressure on the pedal that you know the fronts would have locked up or kicked in the ABS ages ago.

I was wary as well, but it seems to work.

HP said:

I've got mine removed and the brakes are vastly improved. The brake balance is fine too, according to the MOT Tester. The only time it shows very high rear brake effort is with enough pressure on the pedal that you know the fronts would have locked up or kicked in the ABS ages ago.

I was wary as well, but it seems to work.

Click to expand...

So you removed them too? Did you do it with the same method as blackydog?

I understand that the inner wheel could lock up when turning, that is why i am a little sceptical of doing the bypass.

Maybe just for the MOT, and then replace them afterwards.

Thanks,

Chris

I took out the pipe from the limiter to the caliper, cut the steel line on the rear beam and spliced in a new piece of pipe direct to the caliper.

The brakes don't lock up, the ABS doesn't kick in, I've tried. The brakes do feel a hell of a lot better though.

HP said:

I took out the pipe from the limiter to the caliper, cut the steel line on the rear beam and spliced in a new piece of pipe direct to the caliper.

The brakes don't lock up, the ABS doesn't kick in, I've tried. The brakes do feel a hell of a lot better though.

Click to expand...

Hiya,

I am thinking of taking both of the compensators off, and disabling the mechanism inside to make it act as just a pipe (Know what I mean?).
I will have to have a good look and see if I can do that.

Does anyone know if that link for the Punto compensator will work on a Barchetta?

Also, HP, I am thinking of putting tempra calipers on the rear. Were they a direct fit? I am a little confused as on Ebay, it says that the caliper is for a barchetta AND a tempra 2.0, so would I essentially be buying a new barchetta caliper? Lol. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rear-Left...del:Tempra&hash=item58946dc533#ht_1821wt_1270

Cheers,

Chris

The Tempra calipers I have on definitely use a larger brake pad than the mk1 Barchetta. I wonder if the later type / mk2 Barchetta uses the Tempra caliper?

I needed to swap the caliper and pad carrier part to make it fit, that auction is just for the caliper.

HP said:

The Tempra calipers I have on definitely use a larger brake pad than the mk1 Barchetta. I wonder if the later type / mk2 Barchetta uses the Tempra caliper?

I needed to swap the caliper and pad carrier part to make it fit, that auction is just for the caliper.

Click to expand...

Hmmmm,

A caliper upgrade would be great because the standard pads are TINY. They are like the size from a motorbike! lol. I am scouting around for some calipers.

Now that the pads are bedding in the rear brake and especially the handbrake seem to be getting much better. For example, on an incline, and with my rugby-player son pushing from behind, it will hardly move, and that is at 3-4 clicks. The pads are still at about 60% of surface area hitting the disc, so am hoping for a effortless way out of this. For now!

MOT again tomorrow at 3:30pm, I am getting up early and thoroughly bleeding the brakes because the pedal feels a little spongy

Cheers,

Chris

Just went for the mot. It passed, but the right rear brake is still recording lower effort.

Hp, does it HAVE to be the rear calipers from the tempra, or are there other fiat cars with that same caliper?

Cheers,

Chris

If you can find something with the same size rear disc (Coupe, maybe Alfa) you might be able to use them instead. The only reason I have Tempra ones is because someone was selling them on the Clubcento forum.