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Old 22-01-2009   #1
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Roll up Roll up, place your bets!

I am ready to reinstall the head tomorrow. Here is a list of work I have done (or had done). For a bit of fun, place your bets, will it be running by tomorrow evening or not!!! Just a simple yes or no, but the condition is that it has to be ready to drive legally on the road and pass an MOT (i.e. if I get the engine running but the exhaust is hanging off - that is a fail!!!

1) So, head work done by a head shop, 16 new valves, guides and stem seals, new inner and outersprings, skimmed, Total 350 inc delivery
2) New variator
3) New Cambelt, 2 new tensioners
4) New inlet / exhaust manifold gaskets, new head gasket, new head bolts, new water pump O'ring, new air intake gasket, new thermostat housing gasket
5) All sealing faces cleaned thoroughly

All removal and putting back together done by Dan and myself (the ones who killed it in the first place!) - Neither of us have done this before.

I have spent half an hour turning the cams, blowing through everything to make sure all machining swarf is removed. I have torque wrenches, torque settings, cam locking tools, TDC indicator, coolant, oil, thread lock....

I am prepared as I think I can be so come on, start at 0830 hrs, will the car be running by 2030hrs? Place your bets..........
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Old 22-01-2009   #2
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Re: Roll up Roll up, place your bets!

Providing you have done everything as you have stated then yes it will start.
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Old 22-01-2009   #3
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Re: Roll up Roll up, place your bets!

I have faith in you mate, you can do it
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Old 23-01-2009   #4
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Re: Roll up Roll up, place your bets!

So I'm not allowed an each way bet? Oh, OK, yes I think you can do it!
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Old 23-01-2009   #5
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Re: Roll up Roll up, place your bets!

Every bit of faith in you both.
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Old 23-01-2009   #6
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Re: Roll up Roll up, place your bets!

mmmm Ok update then, started at 830, finished at 1730 with a trip for an hour to go get some coolant and a sarnie.

So , all rebuilt, spark plugs out, turns over by hand nice and smooth, cranks over on starter nice and smooth so plugs in and turn over, runs very slow and sounds like only three cylinders firing, wont keep itslef alive, plugs out, turn by hand, no worries, plugs in and it fires! video link below.

Lots of smoke, really down to the manifold being covered in WD40 and greese from the rebuild but it sounds prett horrible!

It sounds like a diesel!! It has a new variator in so I wonder if I have got the valve timing slightly out. Anyway, its friday night so car is still in garage still on stands, will recheck valve timing tomorrow and see about firing her up again then. Can I take it that when fitting a new variator, you only prime the oil system by turning on the key without spark plugs for a short while to get eh oil pump going, anyway afte the 30 or so seconds it was running, i would expect to have oil where it needs to go, and the oil light went out almost immediately after it fired up. Some photos attached, Please have a look at the video and listen to the sound!! Any suggestions other than variator faulty or timing wrong??

And no, you were all wrong, it isnt running and able to be driven as the wheel arch liner isnt on and you will see I need to sort out the coil wiring - anyone have a picture so I can see where the wires are meant to run!!! Sorry I sound like a proper tit on the video!

http://s267.photobucket.com/albums/ii304/chrisbriggs_SD1/?action=view&current=MOV02396.flv


Regards
Chris
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Last edited by topher; 23-01-2009 at 18:47.
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Old 23-01-2009   #7
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Re: Roll up Roll up, place your bets!

Sounds like the engine is starved of oil.

Have you tightened up the manifold bolts correctly?
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Old 23-01-2009   #8
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Re: Roll up Roll up, place your bets!

Might just be the recording, but is there quite a hiss to it too - suggesting air leak on the intake somewhere?

edit: Do the tappets need priming up on these engines?
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Last edited by HP; 23-01-2009 at 22:52.
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Old 23-01-2009   #9
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Re: Roll up Roll up, place your bets!

I had the same though re the tappets HP.
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Old 23-01-2009   #10
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Re: Roll up Roll up, place your bets!

The inlet manifold bolts were all tighened starting in the middle and working to the outside on both sides, all torqued to the figures in the Fiat workshop guide. The workshop guide I have (which is a fiat document) mentions nothing about priming the engine and the oil light goes out striaght away on start up. How does the oil get to the valve train? I am reluctant to start the engine again as the original failure has never been bottomed out (the tensioner fell to pieces). The common comment about failing variators is a diesel sound which this may be so if it is not an oil problem, it will be the valves that I havent timed correctly. Will look throught the EPR and see if I can see the crack with the oil pump. Any help / advice of what to check will be gratelfully recieved. I take it I can start the engine with the cam cover off and see the valves / cams moving, if there is some oil splashing about, it should be ok??
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Old 23-01-2009   #11
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Re: Roll up Roll up, place your bets!

There's a breather attached to the cam cover iirc, this will need plugging if you're going to run without the covers on. I wouldn't really reccommend this though. You'll get oil all over the coil packs.
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Old 23-01-2009   #12
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Re: Roll up Roll up, place your bets!

You could just take the oil filler cap off...
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Old 24-01-2009   #13
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Re: Roll up Roll up, place your bets!

How long have you run it for, given it any revs yet?

Its just you've just had the head overhauled, the hydraulic tappets are completely drained of oil as a result.

When I fitted my c&b cams it sounded like that for at least a minute and that was with a few revs too. I thought i'd done the timing wrong and damaged the valves at first.
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Last edited by HgtBill; 24-01-2009 at 02:53.
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Old 24-01-2009   #14
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Re: Roll up Roll up, place your bets!

Bill, that video is 1 minute long, that is the only running it has done. The car did actually sound quieter when first started and got noisey quickly - all the head was filledwith red sticky oil - I presume this is the thickcam lube used during assembly. It only had tick over speed - i.e. about 1300rpm (it was bloody cold!)

I will have a think for a day and then start it up again and see what she does a minute later. I remember on my old SD1 V8 that had hydraulic tappets, it would tap on startup but that stopped after about 10 seconds so I was expecting this to be the same.

Thanks for the advice!
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Old 24-01-2009   #15
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Re: Roll up Roll up, place your bets!

Ok, this is what I did - right or wrong it cured it!!

1) removed variator solenoid and poured oil in, after 30 secs the chamber was empty, so did it again and again for about 2 mins, then filled the chamber half way and pushed the soilenoid in, no oil came out so I removed the solenoid again and did it again a few more times till when i put the solenoid in, oil came out the sides!

2) turned over on the key with no spark plugs in and injectors disconnected for 30 seconds, then left for a minute, then another 30 seconds, then left for a minute, then another 30 seconds.... I did it in short bursts so as not to heat up the starter motor.

3) Checked valve timing, all seemed OK but tensioner was not pointing at the little whole (just below it) so I reset the tensioner,

4) Plugs in etc then hey presto it fired, after 10 seconds sounded nice a smooth.

5) Ran for 1 minute then changed oil and filter.

Only worry now is there is a little squeek from the cam belt area, so I removed the cam cover again and think it is something on the auxilary belt side. I put a new belt on but didnt change anything else (tensioners etc). I am now away to remove the auxilary pulley and start her up again for 10 seconds and see if the noise is still there.

No rush now so everything is to be checked and double checked as I cant tax the car till Monday so cant get her on the road anyway.

Just though a quick update was needed whilst i have a cuppa to get some feeling back in my hands!

Chris
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