Hi to all. My car is a 2004 model and next year I will have to change the belts. The big question is should I or must I change the variator at the same time? I get the impression (rightly or wrongly) that the facelift model did not suffer from the same variator problem as the earlier marks. Am I wrong and what do you think? Thanks. (mileage 7200)

Quite topical, I have had mine changed today!!

I had a couple of quotes from a few FIAT and Alfa specialists before taking mine to DTR to get the work done. Once thing that they all agreed on was that once the Variators are a couple of years old they tend to fail, the dilemma you face is saving £100 now by not getting it replaced when you have the belts done and hope that it does not fail in the next 3 years.

My advice would be to have it replaced, you will kick yourself if it goes in 6 months and you have to shell out again to have the work carried out again!

Oh, cannot comment on the MK1 vs MK2 question but I recall someone telling me that they both suffer from the issue.

Maybe its my lack of experience what with being a fresh B owner, but, why do you need to change the (cam?) belts on a 4 year old car with only 7200m on the clock?

Richard

Stevo Gee said:

Hi to all. My car is a 2004 model and next year I will have to change the belts. The big question is should I or must I change the variator at the same time? I get the impression (rightly or wrongly) that the facelift model did not suffer from the same variator problem as the earlier marks. Am I wrong and what do you think? Thanks. (mileage 7200)

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When I bought mine the variator was absolutely silent. After I'd owned it for about two years I took it in to DTR for a cam belt change and they suggested doing the variator at the same time. I took their advice but immediately it wasn't as quiet as the old one and after six months the variator was clattering away merrily on start up.

I'm convinced the old one would still have been fine if I'd kept it in. My future philosophy would be - based on a study of 1... - if it isn't showing signs of being noisy then there's no need to replace it.

novacustard said:

Maybe its my lack of experience what with being a fresh B owner, but, why do you need to change the (cam?) belts on a 4 year old car with only 7200m on the clock?

Richard

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Cam belts are rubber/wire belts, in time the rubber degrades, becomes brittle and can split - if a cam belt fails it usually spells at very least a new head but quite often results in a new engine. For the cost of a couple of hundred quid its probably not worth the risk of not changing it, also if the car is warranted it will invalidate the warranty. Most manufacturers recommend 60k miles or 3 years.

I took the risk on a BMW 3 series when I was younger, bought it with about 120k miles on the clock, p/x'd it with 236k miles on it and never changed the belt - I guess I was just VERY lucky!

Twilight Johnny Atom said:

When I bought mine the variator was absolutely silent. After I'd owned it for about two years I took it in to DTR for a cam belt change and they suggested doing the variator at the same time. I took their advice but immediately it wasn't as quiet as the old one and after six months the variator was clattering away merrily on start up.

I'm convinced the old one would still have been fine if I'd kept it in. My future philosophy would be - based on a study of 1... - if it isn't showing signs of being noisy then there's no need to replace it.

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It all sounds a bit pot luck to me, mine was fine last year when I bought the b, the cam belt and variator had been changed 2 1/2 years before and I had no issues. Then at the Red-Dot bbq earlier this year I noticed it when the Doc hailed a cab when I started the b!!

The change in tickerover and performance was very noticeable on the way home from DTR yesterday and there was no rattle when I started it this morning, I am hoping that the fuel economy will improve now as well!

Mine had a new variator with a cambelt change at DTR about 3 years ago. It has started being a bit noisey on starting occasionally recently. Guess it'll need doing at the next cambelt change too.

My point is - it was replaced with the latest spec [ie. that fitted to a mk 2] variator 3 years ago and that has now started to go again. My advice is get it replaced...

You might actually have a 3th generation variator inthere.... with a "young" car with only so little miles on the clock, and no signs of upcoming variator trouble -and if you use decent brand/grade synthetic oil and dont drive on dusty roads alot- i'ld take the chance and just go for the belts (and rollers) replacement,.... you can probably forfait the variator untill the next belt change in 3 years time (depending on milage)

That said, if you are the new owner with a different driving style than the previous... esspecially in the heavyfoot department you might just as well change the variator.. Just make sure you get the brass model, not the plastic one. Although you might actually already have a 3th generation variator in there.

All variators fail on Barchettas and all the Alfa Romeo t/s engines it does not matter what generation the variator is they are all the same having taken plenty apart and working for a garage/parts supplier that specialises in Fiat/Alfa what ever you do change the VARIATOR.

Mine is also a 2004 and will have its 36000 mile service coming up.
If I decide to change both belt and variator what do I tell the garage? Is it a 3rd gen one that they will fit as standard and is that the best? Is there anything else I will need to tell them as I have decided to go with the local garage I've used for all my cars rather than the local fiat one.

xs

Shelxs said:

Mine is also a 2004 and will have its 36000 mile service coming up.
If I decide to change both belt and variator what do I tell the garage? Is it a 3rd gen one that they will fit as standard and is that the best? Is there anything else I will need to tell them as I have decided to go with the local garage I've used for all my cars rather than the local fiat one.

xs

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Shel, get Harry to get the Variator for you and then give it to the garage, they will need a special tool to remove the old variator but they can pick one up off eBay for £10

Has anyone a rough guesstimate of how many miles it takes for a noisy Variator to become a fully duff variator, OR (crucially) how long the average V lasts? since a duff variator is not a safety issue or causes further misfortune (ie expense) on the engine.
I'm naturally mean where shelling money out on any car is concerned and the well meaning advice on this Forum is always to PAY and change a perfectly good V regardless. What's the financial logic?

My understanding on this subject, is that the old variators can live forever or fail the day after it was fitted, and a defective one will only degrade the power of your engine until you get it replaced. The cheap solution in my opinion is if it works don't fix it, and if it breaks, wait until the belt is due for replacement.

The cheap solution in my opinion is if it works don't fix it, and if it breaks, wait until the belt is due for replacement.[/QUOTE]

Thank you, sounds sensible & logical to me, I'm all for preventative maintenance whereby neglect WILL cost BUT chucking out sound bits grates with my personality. Leave well alone imo. I wonder too how long a cam belt will really last, especially on a sensibly driven car. Mine did break before I bought it (100+K miles) but renewing the valves which were possibly tired did it a favour.

It ocurred to me that because the B is a "cherished car" the maintenance advice here will always err a touch on the UNGREEN solution ie renew renew. Whereas if it was a Punto (some same bits) who'd bother.

I think its a personal opinion thing. My fuel economy plummeted over the past two months once my variator failed - I was lucky to see 20-25mpg - last time I had fuel economy like that was in a 4.0 Jeep, it also cut out a lot on tickover and ran very rich - plus it lacked oomph top end.

I have no idea what would happen if you ignored it for any length of time but it is not just an annoying noise, when it packs up you are constantly blipping the throttle in traffic to keep it from cutting out and visiting the petrol forecourt a lot more often than is pleasant! If you are happy that you could live with poor fuel economy, poor performance, lumpy tickover and a horrid noise then save the additional £100 that it costs to replace it! On the other hand if it goes 3 weeks after your new CAM Belt is fitted then you will either need to splash out again to get it fixed or live with it for another 3 years until the next belt change is due!!

>> If you are happy that you could live with poor fuel economy, poor performance, lumpy tickover and a horrid noise then save the additional £100 that it costs to replace it!<<

Come come Mr LRB you are describing a duff Variator in dire need of renewal not YOUR sensible decision to renew. I pondered the wisdom of changing a perfectly sound one. How long do they last or should they last?

What's the labour cost in fitting a new V ? if it then did die. Plus I was under the impression they became noisy and progressively got worse, not instantly died.

Mine was in dire need of replacement but I would have had it replaced regardless, you can change the cam belt without the variator but you cannot change the variator without the cam belt! So, if you don't change the v when you change the cam belt and the v fails between belt changes then you will be looking at the cost of another belt change plus a v.....

Mine failed gradually over about 2 weeks, started with a rattle on startup that went after a couple of sec's, then it took a min or so to go, then it never went! I tried engine flush and new oil to see if it would do the trick but eventually had to concede that the knackered v had won! :bang:

CasaPaulo said:

Has anyone a rough guesstimate of how many miles it takes for a noisy Variator to become a fully duff variator, OR (crucially) how long the average V lasts? since a duff variator is not a safety issue or causes further misfortune (ie expense) on the engine.
I'm naturally mean where shelling money out on any car is concerned and the well meaning advice on this Forum is always to PAY and change a perfectly good V regardless. What's the financial logic?

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Hi
On the Alfa's that we belt/variator change and service using good quality oil 10w40 semi syth the variator lasts almost to 36000 mile cam belt change,the Alfa's that become noisey when they come back into us are normally low on oil,the variator is oil feed so if the incorrect oil/low oil the variator is staved and will then become noisey.Once it is noisey you can throw as much money at it as is possible eng flush, oil change the full works and I can promise you they will never quieten down.No damage will be caused to your engine with a worn variator you just need to put up with the diesel noise,fuel consumption etc.
Harry

Wow! Such a selection of opinions! Either black or white! I will probably change the variator but hey I don't have any serious faith that it will last judging by some of the comments. Thanks for your thoughts though and I can at least save up over the next year.One final question on this matter.....a reliable garage or Fiat to do the job? I don't know that the local Fiat guys have ever seen a b other than my own and I know a guy who seems to know what he is doing but is not Fiat trained (BMW trained) so any advice or thoughts?

I would always go for a reliable local garage over a dealer, dealers tend to employ 'fitters' who replace broken bits, garages tend to be staffed by mechanics who repair things!

No offence to anyone that works at a main dealer but:yeahthat: