Oldschool said:

Have done 3 induction kits today and worked on the modification for the Barchetta induction. Have got no hands left.

Should have the modified version ready before weekend.

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Hi Peter,

Does that mean we will be tweeking mine once more then.

After speaking with some of the guys and their results from the rolling road, would you say i should be performing better gains from my B.

I am thinking that maybe my CATT is blocked and should be looked into.

I will be getting the complete supersprint exhaust soon. and will go and see the guys at red dot again for some more fine tuning.

I am happy so far but would like to be all the way back home.

KC3 said:

Hi Peter,

Does that mean we will be tweeking mine once more then.

After speaking with some of the guys and their results from the rolling road, would you say i should be performing better gains from my B.

I am thinking that maybe my CATT is blocked and should be looked into.

I will be getting the complete supersprint exhaust soon. and will go and see the guys at red dot again for some more fine tuning.

I am happy so far but would like to be all the way back home.

Click to expand...

You won't be happy until you are punching out 175 from a normally aspirated engine!! :devil:

Helloooo!

What would be the max bhp one might expect from the B without the turbo.

Is 150-160 obtainable. Was considering cams but after speaking with the punto hgt boys who had cams, they only achieved a further 2bhp.

The standard B who added the gsr kit and run 146bhp. what was it before. the induction.

LittleRedB said:

You won't be happy until you are punching out 175 from a normally aspirated engine!! :devil:

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We won't stop there.

Yes Kiry we will do more.

KC3 said:

Helloooo!

What would be the max bhp one might expect from the B without the turbo.

Is 150-160 obtainable. Was considering cams but after speaking with the punto hgt boys who had cams, they only achieved a further 2bhp.

The standard B who added the gsr kit and run 146bhp. what was it before. the induction.

Click to expand...

The Punto HGT bots can't have their cars mapped with the OE ECU. Cams will not help a lot without mapping.

KC3 said:

Helloooo!

The standard B who added the gsr kit and run 146bhp. what was it before. the induction.

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That was Stews car. I think he said he hadn't got a 'before' readout to compare.

MattB2k said:

That was Stews car. I think he said he hadn't got a 'before' readout to compare.

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From the Stilo 1.8s and the Punto HGTs we know that the peak power increases between 10 and 12 bhp.

of course, if you want to "pump" more air, you can sacrifice the foggies and add scoops and tubes from there...

or... put a huge scoop on the bonnet and add a supercharger, but that would look :yuck:

Some pics of the new GSR induction for the barchetta.

That's a new mod you got a lawn engine tray, how do you mow it

Looks good mate, your stedilly becomming a Doc clone

KC is doing some cool stuff with his B but I am sure his bank manager is not that happy

I've been a bit busy trying to get my Barchetta through it's MOT (you need all kinds of papers if you change anything in this country).

Anyway, I'm curious about the GSR kit. Looking at the photos it seems to be doing the job of putting the cone filter nearer some cold air.

However, I thought a cone filter would tend to suck in air from every direction so you'd still get slightly warm air from the engine bay.

Doesn't this mean a "closed" system like a CDA with a pipe leading to the front would be slightly better at making sure you got as much cold air as possible? Or have I missed something?

I'd have also thought Docs system was better again as it's a shorter distance to the throttle body so less energy lost/ As I understand it the air at the side of the pipe is stationary, so th longer the pipe the more restrictive it becomes. Or is the throttle body the real restriction so this makes no difference?

Sorry to go on, I've got a brother who works in aerodynamics so I get a bit curious

KC3 said:

Helloooo!

What would be the max bhp one might expect from the B without the turbo.

Is 150-160 obtainable. Was considering cams but after speaking with the punto hgt boys who had cams, they only achieved a further 2bhp.

The standard B who added the gsr kit and run 146bhp. what was it before. the induction.

Click to expand...

Kiry - I didn't get a before run done on mine as I was supposed to be keeping mine stock and didn't expect to put a kit on it. Fair to say my B has done fewer miles than most (only 44,000km) so it's probably still got most of the horses it left the factory with before the GSR kit went on.

Mad Matt said:

I've been a bit busy trying to get my Barchetta through it's MOT (you need all kinds of papers if you change anything in this country).

Anyway, I'm curious about the GSR kit. Looking at the photos it seems to be doing the job of putting the cone filter nearer some cold air.

However, I thought a cone filter would tend to suck in air from every direction so you'd still get slightly warm air from the engine bay.

Doesn't this mean a "closed" system like a CDA with a pipe leading to the front would be slightly better at making sure you got as much cold air as possible? Or have I missed something?

I'd have also thought Docs system was better again as it's a shorter distance to the throttle body so less energy lost/ As I understand it the air at the side of the pipe is stationary, so th longer the pipe the more restrictive it becomes. Or is the throttle body the real restriction so this makes no difference?

Sorry to go on, I've got a brother who works in aerodynamics so I get a bit curious

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Peter, you are the expert - comments please!!

Mad Matt said:

Anyway, I'm curious about the GSR kit. Looking at the photos it seems to be doing the job of putting the cone filter nearer some cold air.

However, I thought a cone filter would tend to suck in air from every direction so you'd still get slightly warm air from the engine bay.

Doesn't this mean a "closed" system like a CDA with a pipe leading to the front would be slightly better at making sure you got as much cold air as possible? Or have I missed something?

I'd have also thought Docs system was better again as it's a shorter distance to the throttle body so less energy lost/ As I understand it the air at the side of the pipe is stationary, so th longer the pipe the more restrictive it becomes. Or is the throttle body the real restriction so this makes no difference?

Sorry to go on, I've got a brother who works in aerodynamics so I get a bit curious

Click to expand...

With any filter element is a risk to drag in warm air, not enough air, dirty air (more than the usual amount ) and water. The latter is the worst but has got to be conksidered too.

To make sure that a CDA or the likes do not get water or too much dirt in means some sort of protection. The accumulating dirt will decrease the airflow noticeably. The protection needed either leaves it in spaces that do not flow very well or as hot as where you pick up the air as warm as with an open filter. Air scoops, which a lot of closed elements are connected to often do not get the desired amount of air in. Your brother will be able to tell you this.

Generally in air intakes we tend to use spaces where the air is rather still (obviously this will never happen but the movement is slow, controllable, and within reason constant). We need this as due to varying speed (of the car)the ambient pressure around the filter throat might not be constant and can be at higher speed lower. This will result in a lower volumetric efficiency and kill potentially power.

The reason for the longer distance is that we are trying to make use of the inertia the air has got when moving (applies only to normally aspirated applications). Storms only have the power because of the amount of air moving. The longer the coulmn of air is the more air is pushing. You must not forget that we have a pulsing going in the inlet manifold. The idea is to increase the airflow to create by the inertia a slightly higher pressure in the manifold that when the valve opens the air is pushed in initially and not sucked in only. Obviously we are limited on this, but it is enough to give it the amount of extra power we want it to have.

Having solved the location problem and the length problem we then need to look into the size of pipe. The size of the pipe is also very important but can only be determined when all othe variables are set. But this sounds more complicated than it is in reality.

When making the induction you then need to make the actual tubing as smooth as possible with bends flowing as well as possible considering the circumstances.

Even with all the calculations in the world improvements will be made with field testing, which even sometimes leaves professionals gob smacked.

I hopr you read it all Lee.:devil:

Thanks for the informative reply! I can imagine you've enough to do with Lee looking over your shoulder every five minutes

I can't remember if I already asked but is the solution your working on only suitable for cars like Lee's (AFM in the throttle body) or is it applicable to the older ones too?

Oldschool said:

I hopr you read it all Lee.:devil:

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Thanks Peter, I did read it and have learnt something!

Mad Matt said:

Thanks for the informative reply! I can imagine you've enough to do with Lee looking over your shoulder every five minutes

I can't remember if I already asked but is the solution your working on only suitable for cars like Lee's (AFM in the throttle body) or is it applicable to the older ones too?

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Matt, there are two available in prototype already for both types of AFM, and in both cases there have been 10+ bhp gains!

Can the long tube be compared to long trumpets on a carburettor? Long trumpets = low end power, short trumpets = high end power, right?

Unclechuchu said:

Can the long tube be compared to long trumpets on a carburettor? Long trumpets = low end power, short trumpets = high end power, right?

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Within reason this is the principle. But if you try to combime the ideas you get good power and good torque.