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Old 18-03-2008   #1
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B-problems

After buying my first, black Beauty, I got several problems...
I drove the B to my home, but he begun smoking (black smoke). Also I lost power in the engine. After asking the dealer what it can be, he said, remove the head and see if there's something wrong. So, I did that, but nothing wrong with the cylinders/ cylinderhead. I placed a new headgasket, new waterpump, timingbelt, new sparkplugs.. The dealer has cleaned the cylinderhead and we put it all back together. I asked the engine company (how do you call a company that checks and cleans cylinderheads)to place the timingbelt because I'm afraid that I'm doing it wrong So , the first start of the engine in a couple of months exciting

But, it was'nt good at all. The engine was still ticking. The dealer said it were the crankshaftbearings, so he replaced them. But, after drving a couple of kilometres, the ticking started again... Noooo!

So now I'm stuck. What can it be?

The variator (forgotten to replace it together with the timing belt, I know, stupid)? The ECU (this ECU comes from a different B, because I lost my keys hehehehe) because it's not the original one? Exhaust system? Inlet system? Any sensors?

Because of the last suggestion (the sensors) i want to make some hardware that reads the ECU (Hitachi MFI-0). I saw some hardware on the internet and in docorangepeel's posts... But wich one does work (almost nothing worked)? A simple K-line to OBD converter? OR only the expensive Fiat Examiner?

If someone can give a suggestion for the answer for my problems, I want to thank him very much, because I don;t know it anymore, I replaced almost everything !


edit:
I found some interesting stuff for my ECU-read-hardware:
At this table you can see what protocol the ECU uses:

1996 - 1999 1.8L 16V MPI CAT 183.A1,000 HITACHI MPI YES YES YES

1998 - 2001 1.8L 16V MPI CAT 183.A1,000 HITACHI KW2000 YES YES YES

2000 - 2004 1.8L 16V MPI CAT 183.A1,000 HITACHI EOBD YES YES YES
2000 - 2004 1.8L 16V MPI CAT 188.A6,000 HITACHI EOBD YES YES YES

so my B uses the MPI protocol (instead of KW2000/EOBD)....
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Last edited by farris12; 18-03-2008 at 22:47.
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Old 18-03-2008   #2
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Re: B-problems

Hi farris and welcome to the forum. I am struggling to understand what the exact problem is, is the car still smoking and under performing or do you have odd noises coming from under the bonnet - or is it both?

The smoking and lack of power could be down to a dirty fuel system and clogged injectors, if the injectors are gummed up with dirt they do not perform correctly - instead of creating a fine mist of petrol they simply 'squirt' the petrol into the bore, it will still burn but not effectively so will smoke and produce less power.
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Old 18-03-2008   #3
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Re: B-problems

Maybe reading the Thread titled "CLICKING SOUND" may bear some similarities to the problem
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Old 18-03-2008   #4
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Re: B-problems

hmm, sounds interesting.

The actual problem is: ticking under the bonnet (more RPM- ticking is getting harder) and underperforming (when you want to increase RPM, the engine waits and then he realises that he has to give some power, so it's going slowly, but I get the power)..

During the replacement of the cylinderhead I putted the injectors just on a piece of paper, and maybe there is some dirt in it? How can i check this?

There is almost no smoke anymore, after replacing the bearings....
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Old 18-03-2008   #5
Rosso Corsa of corsa!!!
 
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Re: B-problems

Quote Originally Posted by farris12 View Post
hmm, sounds interesting.

The actual problem is: ticking under the bonnet (more RPM- ticking is getting harder) and underperforming (when you want to increase RPM, the engine waits and then he realises that he has to give some power, so it's going slowly, but I get the power)..

During the replacement of the cylinderhead I putted the injectors just on a piece of paper, and maybe there is some dirt in it? How can i check this?

There is almost no smoke anymore, after replacing the bearings....
To check the injectors properly you would need to remove them and use an injector tester (you would not be able to tell by looking at them). I would imagine that your local dealer would have an injector tester, it simply tests the operation of the injector by pushing fuel through it at the operating pressure - if it 'cracks' and produces a fine mist they are working correctly, if not they need servicing/replacing.

Another possibility is the lamba sensor.........neither of these would create a ticking sound though, could be that the two are unrelated but a coincidence!
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Old 18-03-2008   #6
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Re: B-problems

thanx!
could it be the variator btw?

I'm going to check every sensor tomorrow, especially the lambda...
I'm also going to check the injectors!

thanx

Now I have another possible problem in my list :P
cylinder rings, timingbelt not in time, variator, a sensor, ECU, lambda, injector
hehehe
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Old 18-03-2008   #7
Rosso Corsa of corsa!!!
 
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Re: B-problems

Sorry, mis-read your initial post, I thought that you had the variator changed! If not then lack of power, bad fuel consumption and an engine that sounds like a diesel all point towards a failed variator.....

HTH
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Old 18-03-2008   #8
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Re: B-problems

lol, than I'm going to ask if the dealer wants to (he has to ) replace it...

I hope that this is the final solution, the B is eating all my €€€...

btw, is it better to replace the whole variator or buy a nylon-ring-kit (about € 20). I want to save a lot of money after all these problems you know heheheh

thanx for the help
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Last edited by farris12; 18-03-2008 at 23:30.
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Old 18-03-2008   #9
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Re: B-problems

No problem, I would replace the variator but would go for one from DTR as the nylon has been replaced with metal so should last longer. I see you are not in the UK but I am sure if you contact DTR they would post overseas. Their contact details can be found on their web site;

http://www.dtrsports.com/
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Old 19-03-2008   #10
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Re: B-problems

Farris if you do manage to find a reader for the ECU I know you'd make a lot of people here very happy. I looked into it a while ago and the conclusion I came to was that the only way of reading the engine is via the official Fiat Examiner, and this requires an annual licence so it's not justa case of getting hold of the software and putting it on a laptop.

Doc looked into it quite a lot, check his thread (best search for "OBD" or something to find the thread), but hit something of a dead end I believe. One of the issues is that the ECU uses some kind of proprietary protocol to pass information rather than an open standard. The connector is OBD-1 I think, but that's just the physical connector.

Then there was the Greek guy who went off to do national service, I've forgotten his username right now. He's an electrical engineer and purchased the technical specification for the protocol with the intention of creating a reader but his thread seems to have come to nothing around August last year.

That at least is my understanding of the issue of reading the ECU. Hope you get it sorted, I'd love to be able to read exactly what's going on with the engine at all times
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Old 19-03-2008   #11
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Re: B-problems

I have a 1999 Barchetta and have the KW2000 reader (picture below) The problem is not the connection, it's the software that can read the error codes.

I cant find any software that will read the codes that does not run in DOS !?!
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Old 19-03-2008   #12
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Re: B-problems

Quote Originally Posted by docorangepeel View Post
I have a 1999 Barchetta and have the KW2000 reader (picture below) The problem is not the connection, it's the software that can read the error codes.

I cant find any software that will read the codes that does not run in DOS !?!


Does that mean you do have software that will run in DOS?? Cos it's no big deal to create an MS-DOS boot disk for a laptop.
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Old 19-03-2008   #13
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Re: B-problems

DOS software is no problem, try a NTFS-DOS bootdisk!

I hope we can solve the ECU-hardware/software problem, I like to read it by myself

But I don't think my Barchetta has the KW2000.... Mine is a 97er and as you can see in my table, it hasn't KW2000... nooooo

maybe we can create a charitable trust so people can donate to us, so we can buy the Examiner

but for my engine problem :

i'm gonna test the compression, because maybe the pistonrings are causing the oil problem (i'm loosing oil , but i only drove max 100km)

noooooo it can be everything
i tried to mail DTR, but their adress isn't correct (a get delivery failure)

edit: doc, your hardware is maybe the correct one.. Because we need a ELM323 (chip)... i found a scheme how to make it, so maybe I can buy the parst and make it myself (only €20 total, the converter kabel is not needed, I just put 4 wires in the fiat connector hehehe)


edit2:
doc, here can you find the software:
http://www.obdcable.com/sc/pages.asp?pageid=60
try the first one, this is for ELM based devices


maybe this thread helps: https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo-tech...ml#post1211223
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Last edited by farris12; 19-03-2008 at 10:37.
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Old 19-03-2008   #14
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Re: B-problems

Quote Originally Posted by docorangepeel View Post
I have a 1999 Barchetta and have the KW2000 reader (picture below) The problem is not the connection, it's the software that can read the error codes.

I cant find any software that will read the codes that does not run in DOS !?!

so you only need a +10 year old laptop with COM ports which runs DOS/Win3.11 or DOS/Win95 ... shouldn't be too hard to find

At a push, just any old 286/386/486 PC should do the job... Ideally permanently put into the garage, with the required soft and Win3.11/Win98 (to boot in windows to read the manuals)


alternatively, a PDA / Palm maybe?
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Old 19-03-2008   #15
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Re: B-problems

Or run it from a command prompt in XP, or VM it?
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