1Pg~~60_57.JPG)
This post contains affiliate links which may earn a commission at no additional cost to you.
Croma 2.4 on the bay £2.5k start
- Thread starter evo-number-one
- Start date
Currently reading:
Croma 2.4 on the bay £2.5k start
stamps in the book mean nothing if it has no bills to match it.
OP
OP
Now on eBay for a whisker under £4k.
"Believed to be the only one for sale in Europe....."
"Believed to be the only one for sale in Europe....."
I won the car, but then let it get away only to then find it readvertised for crazy money!
Advertising it for crazy money doesn't mean that anyone's actually going to pay it.
These days a 1.4 shopping trolley is worth more than 2.4 luxury car. Fuel prices and all that.
Did you decide not to buy it for £2500, or did the seller make excuses?
These days a 1.4 shopping trolley is worth more than 2.4 luxury car. Fuel prices and all that.
Did you decide not to buy it for £2500, or did the seller make excuses?
OP
OP
Now back nearer to reality........
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/used-cars/fiat/croma/used-fiat-croma-2-4-20v-multijet-prestigio-5dr-auto-manchester-fpa-201306287535797
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/used-cars/fiat/croma/used-fiat-croma-2-4-20v-multijet-prestigio-5dr-auto-manchester-fpa-201306287535797
A bit late here but I must slightly object.
I'm a Chartered Engineer with an international recognition and registration number. I service my own cars (out side of manufacurers warranty) to full manufacturers speciafications and IMHO to a better standard. I fill in and sign the car's service coupon complete with my registration number. I have no bill to offer but I have my professional reputation "on the line".
Why am I popping my head up! Simple. I and all my professional colleagues are totally fed up with every man and his dog being called "engineers". Washing machine engineer etc. etc.
Whilst I don't agree 100% with the information in this link, [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer[/ame] , what is clear is that a true and qualified engineer is something completely different and a million times more important and professional than the so called engineer to fix your washing machine, car or other item.
In Europe (excluding UK) it is an offence to call yourself and engineer if you do not hold the relevant qualifications and registration. Sadly in the UK anybody can call themselves an engineer and it pisses me off a million times over when the likes of the BBC etc. use the word engineer for every person/pratt etc. as they see fit. I would not be surprised if they saw my rabbit holding a spanner they would call him an engineer!!!!! :bang:
i cant see how that fits in with what i said,
Garage stamps can be bought anywhere you don't have to prove who you are. garage stamps also go walkabout. This is why i say they mean nothing with out the bills to back them up.
Last edited:
OP
OP
S130 - if I was buying from an individual who claimed to have serviced and maintained the car themselves, had receipts for all of the parts and fluids they had purchased in doing so, that would be good enough for me based on a combination of the Seller coming across as genuine and knowing what they were doing and also if the dates and mileage on the books/receipts/MOTs all joined up. I would want all of the said receipts to be sold with the car to form part of its history for if and when I sold the car.
However, on service books alone I am with Dave 100% regardless as to whether its a private or garage sale, which is based on an experience I had myself - and not just in terms of the stamps themselves.
A few years ago when I was searching for a particular car, I went to look at what appeared in the advert to be a very nice, but a little expensive example - although I initially put that down to its Spec, reasonable mileage and the fact that it was for sale at a Prestige used car dealership - Ferrari's to Beemers, Porsches to Mercs and Audis, and tucked in amongst them a highly specced 166.
It was indeed a nice looking car and had a book of annual stamps regardless of the mileage it had covered but not a bill, invoice or receipt in sight when I asked.
I looked at the book in detail and it had a mix of Main Dealer, Specialist and I guess local garages across the period of its time with its 3 previous owners.
Accompanying the stamps in the book were either the "oil change" or "Service" boxes ticked, plus the obligatory unreadable squiggle of the Mechanic or Service Manager in each one. That was it - nothing else.
I asked about evidence of a cambelt change - which on age should have been done, but the Salesman said "I would have thought so - you can see its been serviced always within schedule", but could provide no evidence and would not reduce the price to take into account that I would need to have it done for peace of mind.
I left it. Went away. Couldn't sleep. I really wanted it - but it was right at the top of my budget, plus then i would need to cover the belts,idlers,tensioners and renowned iffy water pump on top!
Without announcing I was coming back, I went again the following week to hopefully try and chip away again at the price and, as luck would have it, the first Salesman was no where to be seen. So, I tried my luck again as if a first time viewer.
New Salesman came across as knowing very little about the car, the model itself or Alfas in general, so confidently I got the "really needs the cambelt sorting as soon as possible" chat in and how I would be looking for a "contribution" by means of a discount from the price.
"Actually, I am sure that the belts have been done Sir" he said as we returned to the showroom and he pulled out the service book. He thumbed through the pages and declared "Look, all noted here" and he showed me the self same book I had studied the previous week and there, at 48 odd thousand miles, at what I guess was a local garage were the words.....
"Full Cambelt kit supplied and fitted"
.......in a different colour pen (blue instead of black!) than the ticks and squiggles, and clearly thicker and fresher ink than the other pen work in the same box.
If I had got the discount I had wanted to get the belts sorted at visit 1, I may have placed a deposit that day.
They never got a chance to explain or offer me a discount at the second viewing as after seeing the service book "addendum" I made a rather damning statement in the showroom and left to continue my search elsewhere.
Maybe after my first visit they had phoned around the garages who had stamped the book and asked them?
The again maybe they hadn't............
However, on service books alone I am with Dave 100% regardless as to whether its a private or garage sale, which is based on an experience I had myself - and not just in terms of the stamps themselves.
A few years ago when I was searching for a particular car, I went to look at what appeared in the advert to be a very nice, but a little expensive example - although I initially put that down to its Spec, reasonable mileage and the fact that it was for sale at a Prestige used car dealership - Ferrari's to Beemers, Porsches to Mercs and Audis, and tucked in amongst them a highly specced 166.
It was indeed a nice looking car and had a book of annual stamps regardless of the mileage it had covered but not a bill, invoice or receipt in sight when I asked.
I looked at the book in detail and it had a mix of Main Dealer, Specialist and I guess local garages across the period of its time with its 3 previous owners.
Accompanying the stamps in the book were either the "oil change" or "Service" boxes ticked, plus the obligatory unreadable squiggle of the Mechanic or Service Manager in each one. That was it - nothing else.
I asked about evidence of a cambelt change - which on age should have been done, but the Salesman said "I would have thought so - you can see its been serviced always within schedule", but could provide no evidence and would not reduce the price to take into account that I would need to have it done for peace of mind.
I left it. Went away. Couldn't sleep. I really wanted it - but it was right at the top of my budget, plus then i would need to cover the belts,idlers,tensioners and renowned iffy water pump on top!
Without announcing I was coming back, I went again the following week to hopefully try and chip away again at the price and, as luck would have it, the first Salesman was no where to be seen. So, I tried my luck again as if a first time viewer.
New Salesman came across as knowing very little about the car, the model itself or Alfas in general, so confidently I got the "really needs the cambelt sorting as soon as possible" chat in and how I would be looking for a "contribution" by means of a discount from the price.
"Actually, I am sure that the belts have been done Sir" he said as we returned to the showroom and he pulled out the service book. He thumbed through the pages and declared "Look, all noted here" and he showed me the self same book I had studied the previous week and there, at 48 odd thousand miles, at what I guess was a local garage were the words.....
"Full Cambelt kit supplied and fitted"
.......in a different colour pen (blue instead of black!) than the ticks and squiggles, and clearly thicker and fresher ink than the other pen work in the same box.
If I had got the discount I had wanted to get the belts sorted at visit 1, I may have placed a deposit that day.
They never got a chance to explain or offer me a discount at the second viewing as after seeing the service book "addendum" I made a rather damning statement in the showroom and left to continue my search elsewhere.
Maybe after my first visit they had phoned around the garages who had stamped the book and asked them?
The again maybe they hadn't............
Last edited:
DueUno
New member
I'd agree with the comments about 'engineer'. You can't call yourself a doctor if you're not but anyone can claim to be an engineer regardless of training or experience.
However, I also have no interest in stamps in a service book. I usually forget to take mine in when I've had it serviced, but I do keep every receipt, whether for bits I've bought myself or from every service/repair. Put them together, especially with MOT advisories and you get a full picture of the car and it's ownership.
However, I also have no interest in stamps in a service book. I usually forget to take mine in when I've had it serviced, but I do keep every receipt, whether for bits I've bought myself or from every service/repair. Put them together, especially with MOT advisories and you get a full picture of the car and it's ownership.
I meant to add that that I DO have all the receipts for parts etc. and I have my own very very detailed service check sheet that I fill out and copies of these are passed on with any cars I trade in or sell.
What I was saying is that I stamp my book BUT DON'T have a VAT registered garage service invoice.
Yes I'm totally with Dave on the garage stamps going walk about etc.. And even for those that don't based on some of the workmanship I have seen over the years an invoice can often hide a multitude of sins.
Meanwhile, for you DIY Croma owners feel free to use my service check sheet below
FIAT SCHEDULED SERVICE ITEMS (tick = required/done)
(x = not done)
(- = not applicable)
Car: Diego - Fiat Croma 150 Mileage: Date:
[ ] 12 : 12/24/36/48/60/72/84/96/108/120/132/144/156/168/180/192/204/216
[ ] 24 : 24 24 24 24 24 24 24 24 24
[ ] 36 : 36 36 36 36 36 36
[ ] 48 : 48 48 48 48
12K
---
( ) Check operation of seat belts, inspect visible mountings
( ) Check all int./ext. lighting, indicators, windscreen washer, wiper, horn
( ) Check/Lubricate door locks, hinges, bonnet/boot release, straps
( ) Check clutch & brake pedal free travel and tolerances
( ) Check headlamp alignment and reset as necessary
( ) Check for leaks in fuel lines and coolant hoses
( ) Check for leaks - engine, transmission, steering oil, brake fluid
( ) Check fit/condition-exhaust
( ) Check front wheel toe-in
( ) Check tyres for mix, condition, pressure, tread depth(mm) - Torque 108 to 132 Nm
( ) Check front steering/ball joints & rack gaiters
( ) Check front drive shaft rubber boots
( ) Check front wheel bearings for play and noise
( ) Check front brake pads for wear
( ) Check front calipers and hoses for condition and leakage
( ) Check front discs for condition and minimum thickness (26mm)
( ) Check front shocks for leaks
( ) Check front strut to hubs assembly bolts for tightness
( ) Check rear wheel bearings for play and noise
( ) Check rear brake pads for wear
( ) Check rear brake cylinders and hoses for condition and leakage
( ) Check rear discs for condition and minimum thickness (18mm)
( ) Check rear shocks for leaks
( ) Check/Adjust handbrake
( ) Check/Top up level - brake fluid, battery electrolyte, washer fluid
( ) Check/Top up coolant level, test antifreeze
( ) Check condition & adjust as reqd. engine ancillary drive belts
( ) Check cylinder compressions - if suspected
( ) Change Oil Filter + seals & Dowty washer
( ) Change Engine Oil
( ) Reset Oil Degradation Counter (record values first!)
( ) Drain water from fuel filter
( ) Change Air Filter Element
( ) Change Air-Con Pollen Filter Element
( ) Clean Boost Sensor
( ) Check engine oil level
( ) Clean engine compartment (only if really necessary)
( ) Road test, check operation-engine,clutch,transmission,brakes,instruments
( ) Check oil filter for leaks
( ) Check engine idling
( ) Reset Service Counter (record values first)
( ) Fill in Car Service Record Book
24/48/72/96/120/144/168/192/216K (or every 2 years)
--------------------------------
( ) Change Fuel Filter + seals (use oil filter chain wrench)
( ) Clean flame trap / crank case breather
( ) Check/Top up transmission oil level
( ) Change Brake Fluid - DOT4
36K (or every 3 Years)
---
( ) Replace auxilary drive belt
( ) Check condition/wear/slack of timing belt, renew if necessary
48K/50K
-------
(-) Check Fuel Vapour Recovery System (petrol engine only)
( ) Change Timing Belt, Tensioner & Pulleys (or every 5 years)
( ) Fit New Water Pump
60K (or every 5 years)
---
( ) Change Antifreeze - long life - 5 years
PARTS:
------
[ ] 12K ( )Engine Oil 5L
( )Oil Filter - 71737926 - Mahle OX386D
( )Air Filter - 73502069 - Mahle LX1294
( )Sump Plug Dowty Seal - 55196309
( )Pollen Filter - 51805219 - Mahle LA117 - FRAM CF9495
[ ] 24K ( )Fuel Filter and seals - 77363600 - Mahle KX208D
( )Brake Fluid Dot 4/5, 1L min
[ ] 36K ( )New Auxilary Drive Belt - 55200253 / 6PK1410 / 6PK1413
[ ] 50K ( )Timing Belt - Gates Kit KO15623XS
( ) New Water Pump
[ ] 60K ( )Antifreeze - long life - 5 years
SERVICE NOTES
-------------
What I was saying is that I stamp my book BUT DON'T have a VAT registered garage service invoice.
Yes I'm totally with Dave on the garage stamps going walk about etc.. And even for those that don't based on some of the workmanship I have seen over the years an invoice can often hide a multitude of sins.
Meanwhile, for you DIY Croma owners feel free to use my service check sheet below
FIAT SCHEDULED SERVICE ITEMS (tick = required/done)
(x = not done)
(- = not applicable)
Car: Diego - Fiat Croma 150 Mileage: Date:
[ ] 12 : 12/24/36/48/60/72/84/96/108/120/132/144/156/168/180/192/204/216
[ ] 24 : 24 24 24 24 24 24 24 24 24
[ ] 36 : 36 36 36 36 36 36
[ ] 48 : 48 48 48 48
12K
---
( ) Check operation of seat belts, inspect visible mountings
( ) Check all int./ext. lighting, indicators, windscreen washer, wiper, horn
( ) Check/Lubricate door locks, hinges, bonnet/boot release, straps
( ) Check clutch & brake pedal free travel and tolerances
( ) Check headlamp alignment and reset as necessary
( ) Check for leaks in fuel lines and coolant hoses
( ) Check for leaks - engine, transmission, steering oil, brake fluid
( ) Check fit/condition-exhaust
( ) Check front wheel toe-in
( ) Check tyres for mix, condition, pressure, tread depth(mm) - Torque 108 to 132 Nm
( ) Check front steering/ball joints & rack gaiters
( ) Check front drive shaft rubber boots
( ) Check front wheel bearings for play and noise
( ) Check front brake pads for wear
( ) Check front calipers and hoses for condition and leakage
( ) Check front discs for condition and minimum thickness (26mm)
( ) Check front shocks for leaks
( ) Check front strut to hubs assembly bolts for tightness
( ) Check rear wheel bearings for play and noise
( ) Check rear brake pads for wear
( ) Check rear brake cylinders and hoses for condition and leakage
( ) Check rear discs for condition and minimum thickness (18mm)
( ) Check rear shocks for leaks
( ) Check/Adjust handbrake
( ) Check/Top up level - brake fluid, battery electrolyte, washer fluid
( ) Check/Top up coolant level, test antifreeze
( ) Check condition & adjust as reqd. engine ancillary drive belts
( ) Check cylinder compressions - if suspected
( ) Change Oil Filter + seals & Dowty washer
( ) Change Engine Oil
( ) Reset Oil Degradation Counter (record values first!)
( ) Drain water from fuel filter
( ) Change Air Filter Element
( ) Change Air-Con Pollen Filter Element
( ) Clean Boost Sensor
( ) Check engine oil level
( ) Clean engine compartment (only if really necessary)
( ) Road test, check operation-engine,clutch,transmission,brakes,instruments
( ) Check oil filter for leaks
( ) Check engine idling
( ) Reset Service Counter (record values first)
( ) Fill in Car Service Record Book
24/48/72/96/120/144/168/192/216K (or every 2 years)
--------------------------------
( ) Change Fuel Filter + seals (use oil filter chain wrench)
( ) Clean flame trap / crank case breather
( ) Check/Top up transmission oil level
( ) Change Brake Fluid - DOT4
36K (or every 3 Years)
---
( ) Replace auxilary drive belt
( ) Check condition/wear/slack of timing belt, renew if necessary
48K/50K
-------
(-) Check Fuel Vapour Recovery System (petrol engine only)
( ) Change Timing Belt, Tensioner & Pulleys (or every 5 years)
( ) Fit New Water Pump
60K (or every 5 years)
---
( ) Change Antifreeze - long life - 5 years
PARTS:
------
[ ] 12K ( )Engine Oil 5L
( )Oil Filter - 71737926 - Mahle OX386D
( )Air Filter - 73502069 - Mahle LX1294
( )Sump Plug Dowty Seal - 55196309
( )Pollen Filter - 51805219 - Mahle LA117 - FRAM CF9495
[ ] 24K ( )Fuel Filter and seals - 77363600 - Mahle KX208D
( )Brake Fluid Dot 4/5, 1L min
[ ] 36K ( )New Auxilary Drive Belt - 55200253 / 6PK1410 / 6PK1413
[ ] 50K ( )Timing Belt - Gates Kit KO15623XS
( ) New Water Pump
[ ] 60K ( )Antifreeze - long life - 5 years
SERVICE NOTES
-------------
Last edited:
what about Dr. Dre
DueUno
New member
He's a Dr of music
Check for leaks - engine, transmission, steering oil, brake fluid
would be done as part of transmission check imo
tarquin1867
Member
Absolutely
Its easy as well, just check for a pile of grease on the engine undershield:yuck:
Agreed that checking for leaks / piles of grease would definitely be done as part of any normal service but I've always looked at those long lists of check this, check that as something the mechanic does in 30 seconds and the marketing department spend months padding out
I certainly had never suspected that loosing what seems to be fairly small amounts of grease could have such a massive impact on the driveshaft.
But we have hijacked this thread just a bit
I certainly had never suspected that loosing what seems to be fairly small amounts of grease could have such a massive impact on the driveshaft.
But we have hijacked this thread just a bit
Last edited:
tarquin1867
Member
Agreed that checking for leaks / piles of grease would definitely be done as part of any normal service but I've always looked at those long lists of check this, check that as something the mechanic does in 30 seconds and the marketing department spend months padding out
I certainly had never suspected that loosing what seems to be fairly small amounts of grease could have such a massive impact on the driveshaft.
But we have hijacked this thread just a bit
Agree with that Brian but it happened exactly as I said, it was probably the second most puzzling thing I have seen/experienced in 43 yrs driving .
The first was finding a pair of radiator fans complete with mounting frame outside my house on the road just after the speed bumps!!
. How can anyone lose that and carry on as if they have lost nowt?Wonder if the engine warning light came on and they assumed it was just the EGR sticking
FYI I have the same basic check sheet for all our cars over the years (too many to mention) and I find that I have to tweek all of them.
There is possibly some stuff that is missing from the Croma check sheet I posted (like fixed brake line condition/corrosion) but this and other items are things that get checked by default as a result of general awareness/inspection. In addition whilst looking at outer CV joint gaiters, shocks, pads, ball joints, flexible brake lines etc. it is just plain obvious to check the fixed brake lines at the same time.
I've tried to group check items together into logical "groups/sets" that guide and allow some flexibilty as one tackles a full service.
Also an item like "Check Front Wheel Tracking" is coupled with the "Check tyres for wear ......" etc. This means that "Check Front Wheel Tracking" is a visual coupled with tyre measurements that results in an "OK IN USE" annotation/result. If anything is suspected then I will get my tracking kit out and measure actual toe values and adjust as required.
For me, as stupid as this sounds, proper vehicle maintenance is a mixture of knowledge, experience, correct tools, etc. and most important factors empathy and care, where empathy/care is "you care, you appreciate, you protect, you value, you respect etc...........".
Of these care and more importantly respect (for you and your pride an joy) is something that is so so missing from so many main dealers and other garages. To many it is just another car, another bit of tin, another punter and another bonus payment if I rush the job through!
There is possibly some stuff that is missing from the Croma check sheet I posted (like fixed brake line condition/corrosion) but this and other items are things that get checked by default as a result of general awareness/inspection. In addition whilst looking at outer CV joint gaiters, shocks, pads, ball joints, flexible brake lines etc. it is just plain obvious to check the fixed brake lines at the same time.
I've tried to group check items together into logical "groups/sets" that guide and allow some flexibilty as one tackles a full service.
Also an item like "Check Front Wheel Tracking" is coupled with the "Check tyres for wear ......" etc. This means that "Check Front Wheel Tracking" is a visual coupled with tyre measurements that results in an "OK IN USE" annotation/result. If anything is suspected then I will get my tracking kit out and measure actual toe values and adjust as required.
For me, as stupid as this sounds, proper vehicle maintenance is a mixture of knowledge, experience, correct tools, etc. and most important factors empathy and care, where empathy/care is "you care, you appreciate, you protect, you value, you respect etc...........".
Of these care and more importantly respect (for you and your pride an joy) is something that is so so missing from so many main dealers and other garages. To many it is just another car, another bit of tin, another punter and another bonus payment if I rush the job through!
Last edited:
