Coronavirus - The Thread :(

[dave]

To equate a war with a virus (which you can not win - nobody ever has in history) with a battle against a tyrant who deliberately killed millions is ridiculous .

what is ridiculous is to not understand the comparison. It to show how you have to do your duty even though you may not want to or agree with it.

we do win wars with viruses, aids is no longer the death sentence it was and people learnt how to protect against getting it.
I've not heard of anyone having Spanish flu lately

need more?
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/diseases/forgot-14-diseases.html

 

[dave]

Can I ask you all how this - the general way the whole Covid "thing" - is making you all feel? I'm talking more psychologically than physically.


Jock

Their are far more people suffering mental health problems from the anxiety of peoples lack of concern for others than there is people claiming sticking to the rules is making them depressed.
They don't seem to realise being sad that you cant do something is not depression its just being a bit sad, Depression is much deeper that just being sad for a few weeks.

 

[pooroldcodger]

I feel for you in your situation Jock. Having had you and your wife in a very serious condition due to flu (not Covid 19) I can completely understand your fear.
It might be hard to do, but please consider that even amongst over 70's the recovery rate is very high (check it out) although that is no comfort if you are one of the ones that doesn't make it.
But in answer to your question, I think mental health decline is going to cause bigger problems than Covid in the long term. It has already started , with youngsters committing suicide for example. Then there is the frustration of the misleading statistics. Of course this is a complicated subject, and any statistician can choose time frames and methods of comparison etc to show whatever trend they like. But that is not good enough. We need figures in context.
We also need to be grown up enough to accept that every single day in this country on an average day about 1600 people die. Any medic will tell you that not all lives can be saved. That is a hard fact, despite their best efforts. But what do we hear from politicians ? "Every death is a tragedy".
In short I am very frustrated by the fact that we were not better prepared.
We did not have enough ppe.
We did not have a testing plan, and even now we are spending billions on testing without really knowing what were are testing for, who or what we should do with the information.
And in the middle of all this we have jobs and businesses (which pay for the NHS) being put out of business, and young people who should be having cancer treatment condemned to an early death.
And in top of that we have the hysterical Twitter mob and main stream media who seem perversely pre occupied by being complicit in frightening the public to death rather than helping to paint a balanced picture.
Good luck Jock and Mrs Jock. You need to see your kids and grand kids. You need quality of life, not just quantity of life.

 

[pooroldcodger]

what is ridiculous is to not understand the comparison. It to show how you have to do your duty even though you may not want to or agree with it.

we do win wars with viruses, aids is no longer the death sentence it was and people learnt how to protect against getting it.
I've not heard of anyone having Spanish flu lately

need more?
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/diseases/forgot-14-diseases.html

Dave. Comparing whether somebody would do their duty to their country in a time of war, with somebody who dares to question how this pandemic is being handled is insulting to the millions who sacrificed their young lives is a gross and twisted insult to their memory. Was AIDs and airborne (do they call it aerosol? ) virus? I don't think so.
You must tell us what your plan to handle this situation is, other than washing hands and people not wearing masks in Asda. Please tell us.

 

[e42b]

In Europe, Germany is widely considered to be quite well prepared. Nationwide there are about 7,500 intensive care beds available for Covid-19 patients, and some more without having staff to operate on. The current trend figures expanded lead to these 7,500 beds being occupied by mid December. If the lockdown does not lead to a significant flattening of the infection curve by mid December medical personnel will have to decide which person will get medical treatment, and which one will have to die.
Switzerland for example already stated their triage rules: People over 85 and people over 75 who have a pre-existing illness won't get a bed in IC no matter what the prognosis is. You can hardly find people over 85 which are totally healthy, so you can assume that most infected people over 75 will be left for fading away.
The only chance to prolong the period to the necessity for selection is braking the infection speed down. No way out.

 

[dave]

Dave. Comparing whether somebody would do their duty to their country in a time of war, with somebody who dares to question how this pandemic is being handled is insulting to the millions who sacrificed their young lives is a gross and twisted insult to their memory. Was AIDs and airborne (do they call it aerosol? ) virus? I don't think so.
You must tell us what your plan to handle this situation is, other than washing hands and people not wearing masks in Asda. Please tell us.

No moaning about a few simple steps to save lives is insulting to the millions who sacrificed their young lives is a gross and twisted insult to their memory.

and there was a list of 14 other things we won against when you claimed it was none but you can only say aids wasn't airborne rather than admit you was wrong again.

 

[pooroldcodger]

No Dave - I were not wrong, or sorry , is it I was wrong ? No matter.
But comparing a virus such as Covid-19 with vaccines for hepatitis and tetanus etc when they are completely different and transmitted in a different way adds nothing to the debate.
But still no ideas from you. Only rolling eyes emojis and not much else.
Have I ever complained about the simple steps of washing hands and wearing masks? No - why would I? And I have never said anything to the contrary.

 

[dave]

No Dave - I were not wrong, or sorry , is it I was wrong ? No matter.
But comparing a virus such as Covid-19 with vaccines for hepatitis and tetanus etc when they are completely different and transmitted in a different way adds nothing to the debate.
But still no ideas from you. Only rolling eyes emojis and not much else.
Have I ever complained about the simple steps of washing hands and wearing masks? No - why would I? And I have never said anything to the contrary.

you keep saying you didn't say thinks when all you have to do is scroll up and you can see you did, you should be a politician:shakehead:

 

[jimboy]

Can I ask you all how this - the general way the whole Covid "thing" - is making you all feel? I'm talking more psychologically than physically.


Jock

Aye Jock, not a good place to be. Genuinely feel for you and Mrs Jock. For me I’m a people person and miss the craic with all the workmates and all my friends and buddies that I’ve acquired along the way. Now, I can switch off and go to a better place due to my strict childhood. I suppose I’m a tad selfish in that respect, but it’s self preservation that a learnt when I was very young. My wife is a very strong person and very intelligent, she keeps as all upbeat.

Everyone has a story and we all handle things in our own way. My wife lectures in child psychology and youth studies. There have been some horror stories that she has encountered, I can’t go into detail but I’m sure you could guess. One of the best things you can do is to speak to someone, and it’s usually someone outside the family unit, or a very trusted family member.

 

[portland_bill]

And of course, there's always the forum. Ready with advice on any subject, able to lift you up, or tread you down if you let us. At least it is communication with others, probably mostly human, and all the negative comments can be turned around to help you realise you are better than some.

The sun is shining again here, the globe keeps spinning with or without us. Everything we do is unimportant in the grand scheme of things, so ignore everything, and keep smiling.

 

[varesecrazy]

In this constant merry.go.round

On..off.

In..out

Looks like my workplace may be restricted again

The 'tier3' recompence of a 2 day week for 3 days a week pay.. or similar..

Is that now old news.. and we are back to a lesser Furlough..?

Could be for a Month.. could be until the New Year..

Or could be carrying on as we were..

Limiting numbers in the workplace seems very sensible.. but you need a plan

 

[David C]

The continuous mass testing trial starting in Liverpool feels like a good move.

 

[varesecrazy]

If they locked those 700 ravers in that place they were keen to be..

3 weeks later we would have a fair idea of the infection rate within their demographic

Your Sincerely
Miserable Old Fiat Owner

 

[portland_bill]

If they locked those 700 ravers in that place they were keen to be..

3 weeks later we would have a fair idea of the infection rate within their demographic

Your Sincerely
Miserable Old Fiat Owner

Just lock them in,

don't bother with testing,

Never go back.:devil:


Edit: Record as Covid realted deaths.

 

[DaveMcT]

In Europe, Germany is widely considered to be quite well prepared. Nationwide there are about 7,500 intensive care beds available for Covid-19 patients, and some more without having staff to operate on. The current trend figures expanded lead to these 7,500 beds being occupied by mid December. If the lockdown does not lead to a significant flattening of the infection curve by mid December medical personnel will have to decide which person will get medical treatment, and which one will have to die.
Switzerland for example already stated their triage rules: People over 85 and people over 75 who have a pre-existing illness won't get a bed in IC no matter what the prognosis is. You can hardly find people over 85 which are totally healthy, so you can assume that most infected people over 75 will be left for fading away.
The only chance to prolong the period to the necessity for selection is braking the infection speed down. No way out.

The disease causes a type of cytokine storm that thickens the blood leading to clogged capillary vessels and rapid decline. Intensive care ventilators stimulate and immune response aggravating the problems. Putting an elderly person with pre-existing conditions into ICT is likely to speed their demise.

 

[portland_bill]

I heard a lot of fireworks last night, but thought nothing of it, as folks around here let them off constantly from before halloween until stocks run out some time after Nov 5th.

This morning, my partner's carer mentioned this, and having to comfort a frightened dog, then it dawned on us. Lots of firework parties before lockdown.

So we'll need at least fortnight lockdown, to identify the clowns who have spread the virus last night. I can think of another use for the fireworks, and we won't need a pot for the rockets to stand in.

 

[dave]

I heard a lot of fireworks last night, but thought nothing of it, as folks around here let them off constantly from before halloween until stocks run out some time after Nov 5th.

This morning, my partner's carer mentioned this, and having to comfort a frightened dog, then it dawned on us. Lots of firework parties before lockdown.

So we'll need at least fortnight lockdown, to identify the clowns who have spread the virus last night. I can think of another use for the fireworks, and we won't need a pot for the rockets to stand in.

shouldn't they have been sticking to the rule of 6 even if you are in lowest tier ?

There is a bloody lot of traffic about today considering we are supposed to be in lockdown again. had a delivery to harwich was on the road well after the school run and there seemed to be more cars than normal, people treating it as a holiday again it seems.

 

[dave]

The disease causes a type of cytokine storm that thickens the blood leading to clogged capillary vessels and rapid decline. Intensive care ventilators stimulate and immune response aggravating the problems. Putting an elderly person with pre-existing conditions into ICT is likely to speed their demise.

AndyRKett is this true or more fake news he has got from youtube?

 

[AndyRKett]

AndyRKett is this true or more fake news he has got from youtube?

its a very basic and layman's way of explaining something incredibly complicated.

Its possibly fair to say its the sort of thing you might see explained on a YouTube video, certainly not how it would be explained in medical journals

The most obvious statement is that if you take an older person 85+ then they are much more at risk with anything, have a car accident then you could see an increased risk of death, an operation means an increased risk of death, etc etc.

Contributing illness or not, as you get older your body's ability to respond to injury or illness is decreased.

 

[dave]

its a very basic and layman's way of explaining something incredibly complicated.

Its possibly fair to say its the sort of thing you might see explained on a YouTube video, certainly not how it would be explained in medical journals

The most obvious statement is that if you take an older person 85+ then they are much more at risk with anything, have a car accident then you could see an increased risk of death, an operation means an increased risk of death, etc etc.

Contributing illness or not, as you get older your body's ability to respond to injury or illness is decreased.

if it thickens the blood wont they just give the patient warfarin to thin it down again