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Old 31-03-2020   #211
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Re: Coronavirus - The Thread :(

Now, now lads, why don`t we all get out of this bitch, moan, winge mood and be thankful for what have and the services this country provides for us.

At the end of the day it is all voluntary. No one press gangs you into doing what you are doing. We all have the option to bugger off and be a postie or sewer pipe cleaner !!!!!!!

Let,s all be thankful we can still be here and posting on this site and not like an awful lot of our poor Italian and Spanish compatriots who will never see the light of day again.

With the announcement of developments by companies to produce equipment etc, lets all hope we can get through this as painlessly as possible, and then help Tony To fix it Another Day.................
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Old 31-03-2020   #212
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Re: Coronavirus - The Thread :(

Quote Originally Posted by Joiner View Post
At the end of the day it is all voluntary. No one press gangs you into doing what you are doing. .
i didn't volunteer to pay tax to a bunch of crooks who hid it and pretended it was all gone until a virus came along that could infect them and their investments
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Old 01-04-2020   #213
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Re: Coronavirus - The Thread :(

Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
Things like CT and MRI scanners are usually leased by any hospital that way they get a maintenance package.

We only have about 60 PET scanners in the Uk. There are other types of radiotherapy machines which are getting very old now, and we only got our first proton beam therapy machine in 2018... we still have only one in the uk and before that opened, patients had to travel to France or Germany to get treatment. Have you worked in theatres of a hospital that hasn’t been built in the last 20 years? New kit doesn’t fit in old operating theatres.

They open a new hospital and spec up lots of nice shiny new kit for when it opens, yet when they move everything over from the old hospital they usually move old beds, old tables, old lockers, old pumps, old mattresses, if you look beyond electronics, it’s amazing how much old stuff is still in service. Take a
Look at the beds they are using in the new nightingale hospital, they are not top of the range electric ones.

I criticise the kit my local trust has, the hospital it’s self gets good CQC ratings and the staff are exceptional, they are making the best of what they have, and having to raise their own money for upgrades that the government doesn’t pay for.
You are taking a limited view on an entire organisation, based solely on your local hospital, through the eyes on someone else and what the press throw out.
If your local is Norfolk and Norwich University, you are probably right in being worried though.
https://www.cqc.org.uk/location/RM102

The beds in the Nightingale are fit for purpose.
There is no expectation for patients to have long stays so the use of Smart Beds that prevent pressure sores is unnecessary.
As it's been pointed out there is just no need to waste precious resources on kit like this without good cause.
Plus, they are beds in a temporary hospital, not mattresses on hard floors that some of our European neighbours are lucky to offer at the moment.

We have recently commissioned new theatres in a well publicised partnership with Johnson and Johnson, opened a new Cancer Centre, Childrens Hospital, refurbished major wings that house wards, built new community rehab units and nothing unfit for purpose has been reused.

Perhaps instead of criticising, you could take another approach that might actually improve your local Trust.
Trusts are community led for the community, their boards are made up of executive and non executive members and a council of governors are elected to act as a link between the community and the board and that holds the board accountable.

Within this governance group, staff and local community representatives effectively direct the board to run the hospital for the community.

Too much for you to join, why not just write to them about your concerns?

Or what about getting involved with the Patient Led Assessments of the Care Environment.
Any patient, past or present or member of the local community can volunteer a few hours, one day a year to audit their own hospital, they'll even throw in a lunch for you.
These audits are made public within the community and is probably the quickest way to get changes implemented.

Or you could just let others, like me, my Mrs or my son do these things for you.
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Last edited by Goudrons; 01-04-2020 at 07:44.
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Old 01-04-2020   #214
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Re: Coronavirus - The Thread :(

Aye, post code lottery as I say. Our hospital is pretty much up there. I've been in & out in the last four years unfortunately, but fortunately I've been well looked after. I didn't see any dated/broken kit, in fact quite the opposite, but this is up here.
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Old 01-04-2020   #215
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Quote Originally Posted by Goudrons View Post
I've never seen any evidence of anyone having better medical kit than the NHS,
Just to remind you what we were actually talking about, your assumption that we have the best kit in the world.... we donít. Never did I say anything was not Ďfit for purposeí also this is not based solely on one trust, hospitals across the country use old stuff day in day out in underfunded, hospitals that really need updating, germany, Switzerland, Japan, even the United States, to name just 3 all have better equipment than in their hospitals than we do. Equipment is not the whole story and at the current time non of that really matters when faced with thousands of seriously ill people, but I do enjoy how peopleís agendaís twist and turn on these forums as people get challenged.

My main gripe with this thread is mis-information, people sticking their opinion in to something that theyíve not researched or have no experience of. (To clarify when I say researched I mean evidence based not some videos on YouTube, or read something on the daily mail website)

Dave asked you what you did in hospitals and Iím inclined to want to follow this question up, because in your last post you made comments about the types of beds being used in the nightingale hospital, which are just not correct If youíre getting these simple things wrong then what area of authority are you speaking from when you assure us all you work in the health service and therefore know what youíre talking about? When I go to the doctors I donít go to see the receptionist. (That is an analogy and not me making any assumption about anyoneís particular job)

People here who donít even work in the health service are telling us all about how we should be washing masks in alcohol, and that itís a flu virus. Other people who donít live in the uk or a country thatís been particularly affected, and donít work in health care are also sitting behind their computer screens furiously googling stuff to then tell us how it is.

At the moment people need accurate information based on evidence, not what they read in the paper or someone on Facebook told them. If people donít want accurate information and would rather I shut up, Iím happy with this, you can get all your medical information from memes and scare stories from the national news sites like the sun.

But in terms of your actual original point about equipment, you do not need to go very far at the moment to see posts from front line staff telling all they need better kit to deal with this current situation.

Quote Originally Posted by Goudrons View Post

Or what about getting involved with the Patient Led Assessments of the Care Environment.
Any patient, past or present or member of the local community can volunteer a few hours, one day a year to audit their own hospital, they'll even throw in a lunch for you.
These audits are made public within the community and is probably the quickest way to get changes implemented.

Or you could just let others, like me, my Mrs or my son do these things for you.
As I keep pointing out my wife is an NHS doctor and she is currently on the front line of this. Also as you seemingly donít know my background I am ex NHS my last job involved coordinating elective surgery, so bed management, theatres recovery, etc etc. I have spent the last 5 years working in private health care and as my company has currently shut down over this I am currently working from home updating myself with the all current situation and will be returning back to the NHS probably by the end of this week beginning of next to offer my skills and expertise to the current crisis. At the moment I wonít be taking a penny from the NHS for this work. So Iíd say Iím doing my bit.
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Last edited by AndyRKett; 01-04-2020 at 09:50.
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Old 01-04-2020   #216
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Re: Coronavirus - The Thread :(

Thanks both for the view of the NHS
(From both sides of the fence)

95% of the UK population will happily agree they are doing a fantastic job on a daily basis.
And the grumbles will need MONTHS to rectify.. we all see enough to know the pressures the service is under.

Im happy to get this thread back to a

'What can WE do in the next 7 days'

To help ourselves..our community..and the wider population get through this.


(I'm also due to be 'drafted in'..
But the story : plan / expectations seem to be shifting quicker than I can type )
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Old 01-04-2020   #217
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Re: Coronavirus - The Thread :(

Mrs Jock was, as I've previously mentioned, ill with Flue "A" which then led on to pneumonia just after Christmas. Although feeling pretty groggy with the flue myself I nursed her at home for about a week as her condition declined. Then she started having breathing difficulties so I rang our surgery who gave me a doctor's appointment an hour later (roughly 10 am) - no offer was made for a home visit. Within minutes of attending at the surgery the Doc had rung the hospital and told me to put her back in the car and drive her straight there where they would be waiting for us. - she also told me she was concern at my condition and to get a chest x-ray and gave me a letter for hospital - I helped her - Mrs J - into the A&E where reception staff had been inform to expect us and she was immediately taken off in a wheel chair. My car was on a yellow line outside with a parking person "hovering hopefully" so I rushed out to move it to the car park. Fat chance! I joined a long queue to get into the car park and rang the hospital to see if all was Ok. They were checking her out and deciding where to put her but reassured me all was Ok. After nearly an hour, still in the queue, I rang the ward who told me she had a bed and I wasn't to worry, just to come in when I could.

I gave up on the car park and went looking round local streets for a parking place but couldn't find anywhere - all yellow lined or residents only. I was by now feeling so stressed and as home is less than half an hour away I decided to go home and have a cup of tea before trying again. (I needed the loo too by now - always a factor for us older chaps). I rang the ward and they said she was in no immediate danger and comfortable. I was back at the hospital within the hour but the car parking was still absolutely insane. I rang the ward again with the same reassuring out come as before so, although very worried about her, decided to try later and went home. I subsequently got into the car park quite easily at around 5 pm. Subsequent visits showed the mornings to be insane but around 4.30 to 6.00 pm you could get in quite easily - probably all the day care appointments were over by then? The hospital did my x-ray that evening as I waited and Mrs J was transferred to the infectious isolation ward where she was put on a ventilator. I was permitted to visit as, by now my flue was nearly over but I had to wear a mask and plastic gloves. I also was told to touch nothing and walk down the middle of the corridor away from anything I might touch. No personal contact with Mrs J either (Understandably) The hospital staff were absolutely wonderful and kept assuring me she should be Ok. - although rigged up in the ventilator she looked far from it. However Mrs J is a very fit "oldie". she swims 80 lengths of our local pool twice a week and walks everywhere local. They kept saying to me "She's the fittest ill person in here". She was in there for over a week but in the end they pulled her through - I don't have words suitable to express my thanks, The box of "fancy" chocolate biscuits seemed so inadequate.

So I just want to say to everyone, with this new bug in mind. Yes, I'm sure we should be all very worried - especially those of us in our later years - but that may not be a bad thing as it helps us all to think about isolating and keeping safe. We have no inbuilt protection to this scourge so it's likely, I think? that if you're not careful, you'll catch it and for us older people in particular, especially people like Mrs J who is still weakened by the recent pneumonia, This is particularly worrying. Eventually we'll probably be able to have a "Jag" for it but that's likely many months, if not longer, away. Our best bet is to isolate and avoid any situation where you might pick it up until they've developed this Jag or at least until the peak rate of infection subsides and capacity is not so strained. If you are unfortunate to fall victim to it though, don't underestimate the commitment, ingenuity and remarkable commitment of our NHS staff. Absolute heroes in my view and thank you all so very much for giving Mrs J and I some more time together.

I'll say again folks, stay safe and all the best to you all
regards
Jock
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Old 01-04-2020   #218
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Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
i didn't volunteer to pay tax to a bunch of crooks who hid it and pretended it was all gone until a virus came along that could infect them and their investments
The money will be borrowed rather then just lieing around in the budget
No doubt it will all go again when this plus over
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Old 01-04-2020   #219
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Re: Coronavirus - The Thread :(

Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
i didn't volunteer to pay tax to a bunch of crooks who hid it and pretended it was all gone until a virus came along that could infect them and their investments
up the revolution .
or just join the rest of society.
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Old 01-04-2020   #220
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Re: Coronavirus - The Thread :(

To be honest this is not the time for negativity, if you believe statistics, sadly a forum member may loose their life on here or even worse more. Have to admit when the virus situation started, I wrongly thought that up here in the Highlands we would be pretty much shielded, how wrong was I. My daughter is a charge nurse on the front line. The stories are horrendous & emotional. Latest, if someone dies who has the virus, not to resuscitate, this is when contamination is at its worst.

Being cooped up aint great but it it what it is. I've always considered myself a half full glass.

Just back from the fish van forty quid lighter not all for me, some fish for son in law, but I have a pair of kippers for breakfast tomorrow.....
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Old 01-04-2020   #221
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Re: Coronavirus - The Thread :(

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Old 01-04-2020   #222
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Re: Coronavirus - The Thread :(

I had flu a couple of years ago. As soon as I was able to get out of the house, I went to my GP as a precaution who said I did indeed have a chest infection and prescribed Amoxycillin. Four days later I was declining. Another trip to the GP feeling dog rough. I was borderline for hospital in-patient treatment but as I'd walked in the GP gave me a combination antibiotic. It worked but I was seriously close to a very bad situation. Infection happens very fast and can kill in hours.

I was in my late 50s. However I have friends who in their 30s developed flu with pneumonia. One was as fit as you get in your twenties, yet had a spell on a ventilator and was off work for two months.

This new SARS type virus is technically not infuenza but it is far more infectious and symptoms and the damage it causes are at least as bad.
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Last edited by DaveMcT; 01-04-2020 at 12:48.
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Old 01-04-2020   #223
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My view is that as a free health service, the NHS is one of the best in the world.

Yes, other countries may have better....but I'd expect that if I'm paying out 1000's for an operation, or if I'm paying a dedicated health insurance.

My cousin in the US used to be in the army, and last year one of his ex-unit, a veteran, needed an operation, but couldn't afford health insurance. There was no option of free treatment.... either he payed or nothing. In the end, all those in his old unit and many others donated, and they paid the $8000 bill.

People bitch and moan about the NHS, but they'd soon kick up a fuss if they had to pay.

And something else I've had personal experience of....better equipment doesn't mean better service.

I worked in the ambulance service of a European country for a while. A country with a free health service, and better equipment than our NHS ambulances. But the level of care, was unbelievably worse.

It got to the point where we were directed that if we felt the patient wouldn't survive by the time we made it to A+E, don't bother. I always remember turning up to a RTC where a pedestrian had been hit by a car. A crew was already on scene, and there was a blanket covering the casualty. I assumed he had passed away....but no, he had a nasty head injury, but was alive and breathing. The crew had decided he wouldn't survive, so left him to die on the street! To cut a long story short, me and my colleague took him in, and he survived and made a full recovery.

But....I got a right b******ing from my supervisor for overriding the original crew.

Needless to say, I quit.

Sorry for the long rant....but we should be thanking our luck stars that we live here in the UK and we have the NHS....the world is envious of us.

And coming back to the here and now, if everyone did what they should, stayed home, then that is key to reducing the pressure on the NHS.

Also if we're able, the NHS will be looking for more volunteers in the near future. They've already received 750'000 applications to help, let's get that to over a million. If only 1% of those volunteers do something that stops someone going into hospital, that's 7500 beds saved.
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Old 01-04-2020   #224
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Re: Coronavirus - The Thread :(

Just to specify.. if you 'volunteered'
And you resided outside ENGLAND you wont be contacted
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Old 01-04-2020   #225
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Re: Coronavirus - The Thread :(

Eurgh, Taiwan made it compulsory to wear masks on public transit now.

I've only had it on for 10 mins and it's already irritating me, really hard to breath and it really heats up.

I can see why UK people are resisting wearing them.
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