Coronavirus - The Thread :(

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Coronavirus - The Thread :(

My mum used to love kippers for breakfast, never could get my head round that. Used to quite like the continentals with their salamis, hams and fresh rolls but now I'm strictly a porridge or weetabix man - Special K if I'm feeling guilty about eating too much!

Can anyone tell me if the conversations taking place in this thread are going to affect the care I receive If I have to go into the hospital? If not I think I'm going to stop opening this thread as it's depressing the hell out of me!

Aye well Jock! that's the thing, just because I love kippers, I would not expect everyone else to have an inkling for them, at breakfast or for any other time. I was expressing my own pleasure as out of times such this, a small treat in the form of kippers makes me feel braw. Horses for courses eh? Of course lightening the mood or trying to :rolleyes: Just may affect your care in a good way if you ever came across any NHS workers on here.....:D
 
No they don't have the best or newest equipment, I know, I've worked on the front line. However I've always had what I needed. Maybe not the best, but it's done the job.

They don’t have the best newest newest equipment but they do have the best people!

I have private medical insurance through my company and last year had a back op. The hospital was lovely, the food was great, the main problem being the nurses didn’t remember to get me ready for surgery so when called I wasn’t actually ready and consultant was far from impressed. The nurse then spent the whole time I was in surgery trying to make amends with my wife by making idle chit chat with her, my argument is if you had so little to do and can now spend time chatting why could you not do your job before! Neither me nor my wife where Impressed with the service.
 
Except they wouldn't use filler and rattle cans as they have to provide a certain level of service.

Just as the NHS provides a certain level of service.

If I paid thousands of pounds for a private operation, I'd expect a better service.

But like the majority of the people in this country, I'm glad I'm able to be treated to a good standard and in a timely fashion.....and not left to die on the street.

Being technical, no it's not free....even if it worked out at £1 a day, that's sod all for what it could cost me.

My mother had a hernia repair done privately. NHS had a 3 month waiting list. Fortunately my parents had the money to spare, so they paid £3500 and it was done a week later.

Private hospital, same NHS doctor. Was the service any better....not really....they discharged her and within 20 minutes in the car she was bleeding everywhere.

What I do know is that we've had nothing but good experiences with the NHS. They've saved my father's life on more than one occasion, and for what is essentially a "budget insurance", they've done the job of a premier insurance.

No they don't have the best or newest equipment, I know, I've worked on the front line. However I've always had what I needed. Maybe not the best, but it's done the job.

I think most of us here can relate to that. I drive a Fiat Panda. I could afford to drive something much newer and better. However, it gets me from A to B, and it does its job just fine. By not spending out the money on a newer or better car, I can spend my money on other things.

Welcome to the real world....the NHS is the same. Got a problem with that, take out private medical insurance, and stop bitching about something a hell of a lot of people in this world would give their right arm for.


so why does any of that give the government the right to make the people working in it suffer so much? working with poor kit, poor wages and poor hours.

why have people let the tory's privatise it via the back door?

I personally dont have a problem with 99% of the staff in the NHS what i have a problem with is the way it if funded or rather under funded and the staff put in just to Implement cuts and make the real workers jobs harder, with out ever having been 1 of them.
 
Sorry Jimboy !

How’s your hip btw?

Ach the hips fine Andy, but my dodgy knee is giving me real pain. Still on a crutch 12 weeks after operation. Still, I'm still here adding something to this thread.:D Bad times that nobody could've foreseen that's for sure. I'm guessing that there are more on here like me, being a bit large & being humorous, but underneath bricking it.
 
so why does any of that give the government the right to make the people working in it suffer so much? working with poor kit, poor wages and poor hours.

why have people let the tory's privatise it via the back door?

I personally dont have a problem with 99% of the staff in the NHS what i have a problem with is the way it if funded or rather under funded and the staff put in just to Implement cuts and make the real workers jobs harder, with out ever having been 1 of them.

The german health care system is paid for by the government about 75% funded and the rest comes from. Private insurance, even then the government there still pays more for health care than the government does in the uk and because of the arrangement it is protected from government interference. I don’t agree with people having to take out a private insurance but if it stopped people abusing it, I could be swayed, I certainly don’t think a US system is ever going to be appropriate but under the circumstances we have both the best of a government funded system and means people who can’t afford I insurance can still get care, that’s what make the nhs so brilliant. It’s just a shame unqualified morons in government think they know how it should be run when the most experience they’ve ever had in the nhs was that one time they drank to much on a university night out in oxford when they were 19.
 
Ach the hips fine Andy, but my dodgy knee is giving me real pain. Still on a crutch 12 weeks after operation. Still, I'm still here adding something to this thread.:D Bad times that nobody could've foreseen that's for sure. I'm guessing that there are more on here like me, being a bit large & being humorous, but underneath bricking it.

It’s all very scary at the moment, and that’s the same inside the health service with the professionals that know what they are supposedly dealing with. Best to keep home, physios are great for knees but it depends just how bad it’s gotten.
All those fish oils should help though ?
 
The same can be said about every "relatively" free healthcare system in the world.

The UK spends 7.2% of GDP on the NHS.

Spain is now down to something like 5.5%.....and we can all see how much worse it is there. They're even bringing back doctor's who are 80+....not to mention something like 13% of healthcare workers are infected and sick.

We're doing pretty well in comparison.

The Coronavirus has hit every healthcare system around the world at the same time. Even the American hospitals where you almost have to swipe a credit card before being let in are struggling with a lack of everything.

Unfortunately there's no magic money tree to spend what's needed....hundreds of billions of not trillions of pounds.

For now it's a choice between relatively free healthcare, or the private system.

If I have a car crash, the ambulance arrives, and there's a choice of taking me to a NHS hospital, or a private hospital where I need to give my credit card details before they even treat me, I know which I'd choose.

And as AndyRKett said....it's the people that make the NHS the best.

All those nurses and doctors don't have to be there....no one is forcing them to work for the NHS. There's plenty of private, better paying work out there.

I've been there, working double shifts, putting my life in danger at times, all for a rubbish wage, but I did it because I felt I was making a difference, I felt proud to work for the NHS....it certainly wasn't for the money.

Why have all the retired doctor's and nurses returned to work? Not for the money....I wouldn't go as far as to say for love....but definitely there's a loyalty there....and the desire to help others....which is a key of the NHS.

The only reason I left was because I decided to have a complete change of career, as I had no intention of working for the health service in Spain, which is my final destination.

Once again I say, be grateful for what we have....it's not perfect, but it could be a hell of a lot worse. I'm sure those doctor's in Italy would love to have what we do right now.
 
The UK spends 7.2% of GDP on the NHS.

got a breakdown of where it actually goes, how much on unnecessary admin compared to where its actually needed? how much to an agency for staff that we could get cheaper employing direct

we have been bringing back doctors too one died today

I have also agreed we have the best people working with in our nhs if you have ever read one of my posts properly you will see that, that is why i voted for them to be treated better. did you?

You cant say
All those nurses and doctors don't have to be there....no one is forcing them to work for the NHS. There's plenty of private, better paying work out there.
like its a reason to treat them so bad. (n)

you are confusing one minute you are sayings they are good then you put something like that
 
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you are confusing one minute you are sayings they are good then you put something like that
I’d say he’s being largely positive towards the NHS and has worked in the NHS, I’m not sure your car insurance analogy was a very good one, though I sort of got your point. I think we all agree more could have been done to support the health service, but what you’re not considering dave is all the poor Eaton educated politicians that would go hungry if they didn’t get all those back handers from their multimillionaire friends with interests in private health care.

About a billion gets wasted a year just in administration of having foundation trusts organise their own deals where as a whole the NHS could negotiate a much better deal on equipment or supplies. Foundation trust are now run like private hospitals having to Bill the government for the work they do, and then doing extra services that they can charge for to try and bring in more money.
 
I’d say he’s being largely positive towards the NHS and has worked in the NHS,

but he keeps seeming to say i am anti nhs for some reason and i have no idea where he has got it from


This is the bit i am against and was trying to get across and how much better our nhs could be if money wasn't creamed off.

but what you’re not considering dave is all the poor Eaton educated politicians that would go hungry if they didn’t get all those back handers from their multimillionaire friends with interests in private health care.

About a billion gets wasted a year just in administration of having foundation trusts organise their own deals where as a whole the NHS could negotiate a much better deal on equipment or supplies. Foundation trust are now run like private hospitals having to Bill the government for the work they do, and then doing extra services that they can charge for to try and bring in more money.

Even the tory loving bbc is confused now https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/coronavirus-ventilators-for-nhs-1-6589546
 
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You cant say like its a reason to treat them so bad. (n)

you are confusing one minute you are sayings they are good then you put something like that

I'm not saying it's a reason to treat them bad..... what I'm saying is that is what makes our NHS so great.

It's made up by a majority of hard working men and women that could earn more money, they could work in better conditions, but they keep on going day in and day out giving their best. If the NHS is so bad, why would they stay? Because it's not that bad. Yes it could be better, but it could be much worse.

I very possibly will go back in to help with the current crisis, but there are other health services around Europe, that you wouldn't get me to set foot in for all the money in the world, because I know at this current time, I'd probably be safer in Syria!

It's all well and good talking about the waste.....but we all know to get a really good health service, even if the wastage was completely stopped, and to pay all the staff what they deserve, would cost massively more than what is currently being spent, and where will that money come from?

I believe the current figures are something like the government receives 130 billion/year from NI contributions, and NHS budget is around the same 134 billion.

In an ideal world, the budget really needs to be 500+ billion, if not more.

There is no political party in this country that could spend enough money.

The only way it could happen is if taxes were increased massively. I personally would have no issue paying more in tax to help fund it, but could I afford my NI to go up by 4-5x? No....like the majority of people in this country.

Until someone comes up with a way to inject hundreds of billions of pounds into the economy each year, then nothing will change. If it were to happen, then it would still be split amongst health/education/social care/defense. The answer to that is either increased tax, or extra borrowing, neither of which is sustainable.

It's come to the fore now because of Coronavirus. But I can guarantee that in 90+ percent of the countries in the world, they're having exactly the same struggles, if not worse.

The lack of PPE is not just affecting the NHS. It makes big headlines on the news, but what do we expect?

In this country, there was a panic buy of toilet rolls. What happened? The shelves were empty. Even now supermarkets have limited supplies.

The same with PPE and ventilators. The whole world (no hyperbole intended) all at once started buying them....so all the stocks disappeared....and everyone is still struggling to supply them.

Some may say that we should have bought them earlier....but we're then back to the toilet roll example. Someone starts buying loads, someone else sees them and also starts buying loads...and it escalates.

Neither can we stockpile equipment just in case, especially medical equipment which would be destroyed once gone past its expiry date.

Of course it would be great to have brand new equipment in every single ward, in every single ambulance. However, if they can keep using older equipment that does the job perfectly well, and that saves them a couple of billion which they can spend on recruiting more staff, great.

I completely agree about the mismanagement and lack of funding....but to be honest, it's not going to change, regardless of who's in power....noone can magically make the money appear....and whoever's in power.....they'll be a politician....so screwed either way.

At the end of the day, I'm proud to say we have the NHS, I'm grateful we have it, because I can't afford to go private, and after seeing health services first hand around the world from the worst in places like Congo, to the best such as in Canada, I can say hand on heart we should be grateful for what we have, because we have a GOOD health service....not the BEST, but a damn good one. And we should be especially proud of the people in the NHS.... because they are there for more than the money....like the ones who are self isolating....they WANT to get back and help...not to get paid, but to HELP.

We are privileged to have a health service with people like that, and they have my utmost respect.

Anyway, I'll sign off from this thread now....I think I've said everything I can and got other stuff to do. Got a clutch to change on the Panda tomorrow, then back with my old ambulance authority next week. I've been furloughed for....who knows how long....so may as well make the most of it.

Stay safe everyone....and look forward to when we can get out and drive our Fiats again. ?
 
Sorry Dave, I wasn't intending it to be at you specifically, although I admit I did take your insurance example the wrong way, about the filler and rattle cans. I thought you may have been criticising the NHS in your example.

I think with all the many viewpoints on this thread, I just ended writing everything I was thinking, not directed at you specifically.

I apologize if I've caused any offence.

I understand totally where you're coming from regarding the wastage of money, but as I look on it, it's not going to change any time soon, so just have to say, they're doing a bloody good job considering what they've got to work with.
 
Sorry Dave, I wasn't intending it to be at you specifically, although I admit I did take your insurance example the wrong way, about the filler and rattle cans. I thought you may have been criticising the NHS in your example.
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no was criticising the government, if car insurance was national run by the government that is the tools they would give to fix the cars. people wouldn't accept it even if we had the best bodywork technicians in the world.
But we expect NHS staff to work with bare minimum.

When my farther was on a stroke unit they had at least 20 people who had to have supervised meals due to altered swallow as they could die just eating. they had 2 staff to do it and all the other work at the same time it was not possible they practically begged me to go in and do some of the supervising. Lots of old people had to wait due to no staff and by the time there was someone the food was cold and they would not eat so deteriorated. more staff needed, this was 5 years ago and nothing changed, still more staff needed.

as andy said
About a billion gets wasted a year just in administration of having foundation trusts organise their own deals where as a whole the NHS could negotiate a much better deal on equipment or supplies. Foundation trust are now run like private hospitals having to Bill the government for the work they do, and then doing extra services that they can charge for to try and bring in more money.

Its not just NI they take off us don't forget they also take tax, with many loop holes that can be closed to raise more

They didn't even want NI off me this year I had to pay it as a voluntary contribution.
 
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This just goes to show how serious this is all getting, my father has a very serious heart condition and I’d not be surprised if he received a letter like that. Guidelines for resuscitation are being rewritten at the moment specifically to include if the patient is thought to have Covid. I saw one such guideline from an ambulance trust basically saying to try one cycle of cpr the. Give up..... so the poor bugger who genuinely has a heart attack, needs CPR might need a few attempts to get is heart going with what we call reversible causes. If he has a new cough and a temp, would get one try and left for dead. I know some of the medical journals have picked up ok this so I would be surprised if it doesn’t appear in the news soon. (This wasn’t my local ambulance trust I hasten to add)

I heard today someone I used to work with is now in intensive care and on a ventilator. My wife told me about some very sick children she saw today heading off to intensive care. There was a consultant today who died after a two week battle. It is genuinely like a war zone in hospitals.

From what I have been hearing today in the bad cases people are being vented early, given at least 10 days on a ventilator to “rest their lungs” then seeing how they are. Hopefully by then they will show some improvement. These are the sort of people who will be heading for the nightingale hospitals. 4000 of them in London a massive hall full of people kept alive on pumps and machines breathing for them in medically induced coma. There is a reason they have built two mortuaries in that place. This is going to be hell, expect to know of someone who Is lost to this no matter where you are in the country.
 
Society needs to grow up. A huge number of people abuse their bodies with alcohol food and drugs and then there are an army of whingers saying we should be spending more money on the health service.

Drinking is a national hobby in the UK. It seems normal until you begin to see it is psychotic. What do people learn about life at school? What do they learn about being parents?


It will not end well. The money will all go and the illusion will be exposed for what it is.
 
hold my hands up and say I'm no expert on this but it does appear people in Japan and south east Asia that wear them, even when there's no outbreak, don't seem to fiddle as much with them as it's become as common as wearing a hat to some, though I guess Ben might have a better idea.

Yeah, they are pretty usual out here (not everyone wears them, but if you see people with them on you don't think anything) - during a non pandemic, I'd say 25% of people on public transport wear them - BUT - 60% of motorbike drivers do (which is a large amount of the population)

I was complaining to my friends on the train about this, and they said they didn't notice any more as they were just used to them. I did observe, it was only me fiddling :ROFLMAO: - everyone else was just acting as normal.
 
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