OP
OP
Here you go, this is what a coronavirus test looks like in Taiwan
But that get is up extreme, the normal doctors aren't dressed up like that, only the ones doing the actual testing.
Coronavirus - The Thread :(
- Thread starter ben
- Start date
Currently reading:
Coronavirus - The Thread :(
Here you go, this is what a coronavirus test looks like in Taiwan
But that get is up extreme, the normal doctors aren't dressed up like that, only the ones doing the actual testing.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2009
- Messages
- 19,492
- Points
- 3,294
Russia simply doesn't bother about such niceties as avoiding the deaths of a few infirm people.
View attachment 207420
Here you go, this is what a coronavirus test looks like in Taiwan
But that get is up extreme, the normal doctors aren't dressed up like that, only the ones doing the actual testing.
That's more ppe than ours have treating confirmed cases
seemed the other way around to me, very few deaths but full lock-down to contain it, something the rest of the world should have done. russian people are complaining that it cant be as bad as government say due to the low deaths so keep going out.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2009
- Messages
- 19,492
- Points
- 3,294
Germany has a health service delivered by private providers, paid for by compulsory insurance. It's a national health service but it's not run and controlled by the state. There is no political interference and everyone can see the real costs of health care.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2009
- Messages
- 19,492
- Points
- 3,294
That's more ppe than ours have treating confirmed cases
The NHS is excellent at following procedures but its slow to change when the procedures are found wanting. For example, basic polypropylene face masks can be effectively sterilised in 70% alcohol. But that wont be in the procedure so they'll have been scrapped and incinerated. Black lights (UV-C) are effective microbial killers on hard surfaces but need people to do the job. Same issues of procedures and rules.
they have to be given face masks first, the ones you see are what they have gone to screwfix ctc and bought them selves. they do wash them but the sponge bit to fore head will not dry in time for next use making risk worse.
One thing you are all missing, once you have had the virus, there is a high probability that you will be immune.
The first batches of key workers that were isolated for showing symptoms are now returning to work.
Once the testing for immunity is in place and individuals are actually showing immunity their risk decreases.....hence the original concept of herd immunity.
I know several health workers returning to work this week with more confidence than they had a couple of weeks ago.
All we hear about is the lack of this and lack of that and very little about the successes and way ahead. That's the trouble with living in a selfish country of moaners.
The first batches of key workers that were isolated for showing symptoms are now returning to work.
Once the testing for immunity is in place and individuals are actually showing immunity their risk decreases.....hence the original concept of herd immunity.
I know several health workers returning to work this week with more confidence than they had a couple of weeks ago.
All we hear about is the lack of this and lack of that and very little about the successes and way ahead. That's the trouble with living in a selfish country of moaners.
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 2,669
- Points
- 797
This PPE thing really has caused some issue.
What first panicked so many is the fact there was only so much in stock on site.
No one, let alone hospitals can stock an endless supply of everything, indefinitely, even more so with items that have a limited shelf life.
Another thing that spooked so many is the fact they didn't know how the supply and delivery service worked, so didn't understand how it all gets to where it's needed.
Hospitals like a lot of places have their supply lines like the official NHS Supply Chain, but all Trusts will deal direct with the manufacturers as their buying powers are massive. Others will farm out certain items to supply specialist or in the case of drugs, to a national chemist chain, like Boots or LLoyds.
They also won't wait for all this to be moved about by the normal supply chain, they employ the likes of multinational delivery companies like DHL and the likes to run their goods about and also run their stores, they have the expertise and a far bigger infrastructure to do these things efficiently.
Sadly those opening the cupboards didn't really have a clue.
I may have been cruel in a past post about this, but those end users that opened the store and thought there isn't enough aren't the ones responsible for it getting there in the first place and most wouldn't know how is actually got there in the first place, after all doctors have better things to do than order stock and track supply chains.
So some did what a lot of other people have been doing recently and panicked a bit.
And the issue became larger as no one really had any idea at the time what sort of PPE was needed for who and what was needed for different procedures.
There is a marked difference between what PPE is needed for serving someone a cup of tea and say intubating a patient that might cause the virus to aerosolise.
No one was really sure to start with, but things have now started to flow through, stock and delivery "suddenly" kicked in, when they were in fact already on their way through.
Information and training did take a little time, but to be honest, it's been quite surprising how fast it's actually come in, after all this disease is brand new.
There are still a few reports of care homes and other such places that aren't NHS could be struggling for PPE and training, but I believe some local Trusts are supporting them, we certainly are.
What first panicked so many is the fact there was only so much in stock on site.
No one, let alone hospitals can stock an endless supply of everything, indefinitely, even more so with items that have a limited shelf life.
Another thing that spooked so many is the fact they didn't know how the supply and delivery service worked, so didn't understand how it all gets to where it's needed.
Hospitals like a lot of places have their supply lines like the official NHS Supply Chain, but all Trusts will deal direct with the manufacturers as their buying powers are massive. Others will farm out certain items to supply specialist or in the case of drugs, to a national chemist chain, like Boots or LLoyds.
They also won't wait for all this to be moved about by the normal supply chain, they employ the likes of multinational delivery companies like DHL and the likes to run their goods about and also run their stores, they have the expertise and a far bigger infrastructure to do these things efficiently.
Sadly those opening the cupboards didn't really have a clue.
I may have been cruel in a past post about this, but those end users that opened the store and thought there isn't enough aren't the ones responsible for it getting there in the first place and most wouldn't know how is actually got there in the first place, after all doctors have better things to do than order stock and track supply chains.
So some did what a lot of other people have been doing recently and panicked a bit.
And the issue became larger as no one really had any idea at the time what sort of PPE was needed for who and what was needed for different procedures.
There is a marked difference between what PPE is needed for serving someone a cup of tea and say intubating a patient that might cause the virus to aerosolise.
No one was really sure to start with, but things have now started to flow through, stock and delivery "suddenly" kicked in, when they were in fact already on their way through.
Information and training did take a little time, but to be honest, it's been quite surprising how fast it's actually come in, after all this disease is brand new.
There are still a few reports of care homes and other such places that aren't NHS could be struggling for PPE and training, but I believe some local Trusts are supporting them, we certainly are.
True enough..
But the news in Wales yesterday regarding testing kits was a little concerning
Order for kits was cancelled by supplier..
Welsh Govermnent are using London as the go.between so answers were not forthcoming
Its yet another cog in the supply of equipment and resources the NHS need, lots of good people are working all hours to ensure this kind of thing is achieved in as short a time as possible
Quoting myself but it is true for all aspects of the needs of the NHS and in fact all of us.
It takes planning and time to get everything in place, this would normally take months to years but with Subject Matter Experts (SME) being brought in from all walks of life, the central controls are all established the cogs are turning much faster, stuff that took months, is now being achieved in days, stuff that took weeks to achieve is now, being achieved in hours...… although miracles are harder to achieve, there are lot of people in the background, that will never get the merit they deserve, working to the best of their ability towards those miracles.
Quoting myself but it is true for all aspects of the needs of the NHS and in fact all of us.
It takes planning and time to get everything in place, this would normally take months to years but with Subject Matter Experts (SME) being brought in from all walks of life, the central controls are all established the cogs are turning much faster, stuff that took months, is now being achieved in days, stuff that took weeks to achieve is now, being achieved in hours...… although miracles are harder to achieve, there are lot of people in the background, that will never get the merit they deserve, working to the best of their ability towards those miracles.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2009
- Messages
- 19,492
- Points
- 3,294
Basically nobody bothered to have a disaster plan in place. That was exposed late last year when a committee findings on the subject were kept quiet. The Covid outbreak was presumably co-incidental but the timing does suggest they thought, "what if this new Chinese thing kicks off".
A plan to wash basic masks in alcohol (rather than clinical waste disposal as normal) would have stopped at least that part of PPE running out quite so fast.
Fold flat masks with one way vent may not have a soft sponge seal moulded types do. Washing with water is not enough. It has to be the correct strength alcohol to kill virus and microbe pathogens. It dries quickly but probably ruins any soft sponge seal. Masks are made from PP which is entirely untouched by alcohol. Masks with activated carbon cannot be cleaned as the carbon depletes but these are not commonly used in hospitals.
NHS would have known all this and have the correct alcohols, but nobody was tasked with considering the problem so nothing got done. Not until too late anyway.
In my case all masks are problem because I wear glasses and they mist up from air escaping around the nose.
very long post but it don't explain why other countries that had the same info and time as the uk have loads of kit and much better kit?
They have no idea how long that immunity will last though, could be a year could only be 10 days, one of the reasons people who actually knew what they was talking about rued out and condemned the Governments original concept of herd immunity.
The other reason was it would kill thousands with undetected complications, but boris still wanted to go ahead with it
arnietwo
Member
Im in Spain and only allowed out to the supermarket, petrol station or chemist or emergency obviously.
I was stopped by the guardia civil and said voy a la gasolinera, he still looked inside at my dash to check the level. I then got lecture on was it absolutely necessary !!!!
I was stopped by the guardia civil and said voy a la gasolinera, he still looked inside at my dash to check the level. I then got lecture on was it absolutely necessary !!!!
What the hell are you talking about. You don’t clean disposable masks with alcohol. You don’t clean disposable masks. The whole reason they are disposable is so that you dispose of any bugs when you throw it away. You don’t subject someone to having to expose themselves to a potentially massive dose of the virus by messing about with used masks. Also the sort of masks you’re talking about we shouldn’t be using anyway. We should in healthcare be using properly fitting masks that seal, if your glasses are misting up then your wearing a mask is completely pointless.
Hospital staff have to be “fit tested” and an appropriate mask selected, this is a special process that takes time to complete and given the huge numbers of people who have needed to be fit tested it again had proven a massive undertaking. This is why the government changed the guidelines on PPE used to reduce the need to undertake this work, but going against the WHO.
At the moment the building industry has stepped in to not only supply massive amounts of masks and protective equipment they have also been coming into the hospital and fit testing staff for the nhs for free and have a wider variety of masks for staff to use than even the NHS had access to. Go and find a proper Covid Isolation area and there she not be people wandering about in just a flat paper mask like you describe. No body is, or ever will be cleaning disposable masks with alcohol, not in the NHS. The fire officer at any hospital trust would never allow you to take a piece of paper, soak it in neat alcohol then leave it to dry in an oxygen rich environment.
Seriously where are you getting this stuff from ??
They have no idea how long that immunity will last though, could be a year could only be 10 days, one of the reasons people who actually knew what they was talking about rued out and condemned the Governments original concept of herd immunity.
The other reason was it would kill thousands with undetected complications, but boris still wanted to go ahead with it
dave you seem to be the only person talking sense on this thread backed up by the actual verifiable evidence, please post your sources for the speculators to read !!
From Swedish TV where they do not have a lock down and everything is just so relaxed and democratic compared to more uptight authoritarian Finland,
An exhausted looking female doctor explains they did not have protective gear so she went out and bought rain coats 'and they work quite well'
Cut to another doctor saying 'well yes we have 3 critical care doctors sick in the ICU now and they did not have protection because we did not realise it would be so dangerous'
An exhausted looking female doctor explains they did not have protective gear so she went out and bought rain coats 'and they work quite well'
Cut to another doctor saying 'well yes we have 3 critical care doctors sick in the ICU now and they did not have protection because we did not realise it would be so dangerous'
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 2,669
- Points
- 797
That's just not true, countries in south east Asia have had a lot less time as they were much closer to the original outbreak, but they have had lots more experience with outbreaks of similar diseases and most of their public are used to responding to them. They appear much more prepared for "lockdowns" than the rest of the world and seem to accept them readily.
Sharing information is often great but it can be a dangerous thing, particularly when something new like this happens.
You can't totally trust what another country is in the process of doing is right and then copy it in hope, that's a recipe for a **** sandwich.
I've never seen any evidence of anyone having better medical kit than the NHS, but heard reports about suspect kit from other countries which has been supplied to other countries.
Most of the hard, heavy kit is made by multinational companies anyway, so it's the same wherever you are. The evidence of this is hot news in New York at the moment, all their individual states are now bidding on the same kit from the same manufacturers, causing a massive problem.
