Many people have discussed tuning their Abarths to 200BHP or so, but I haven't read anything about EsseEsse tuning. If you have tuned yours, what figures have you settled on? Have you found the limit of the EsseEsse injectors or turbo? Do you have a better power graph than the overstressed 200HP Abarths?

lewey said:

Many people have discussed tuning their Abarths to 200BHP or so, but I haven't read anything about EsseEsse tuning. If you have tuned yours, what figures have you settled on? Have you found the limit of the EsseEsse injectors or turbo? Do you have a better power graph than the overstressed 200HP Abarths?

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With a TMC box the esseesse gets to around 207bhp..

My AGP155 is back on the rolling road on friday to see what ive got

On a recent track day an AGP SS + TMC box didnt seem to be pulling away, wasn't right in front of me tho so a bit unsure, rolling road will reveal all

BGreatholder said:

With a TMC box the esseesse gets to around 207bhp..

My AGP155 is back on the rolling road on friday to see what ive got

On a recent track day an AGP SS + TMC box didnt seem to be pulling away, wasn't right in front of me tho so a bit unsure, rolling road will reveal all

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Considering the larger turbo, the peak power figure quoted is only a little more than an abarth turbo with the wick turned right up. I presume that the SS is at least holding boost a little better and that would give it more actual speed in reallifesvile?

You can't compare the abilities of another car to your own unless you're driving both of them. On track days especially there is a huge spread of ability and it levels off at "fast road speed" before rising quite substantially to "truly committed/ex-racing driver".

If you are pushing your car that little bit harder and keeping a higher cornering speed then the small improvements to torque in the SS/TMC car will not be enough to make a noticible difference unless the drivers of those cars are doing the same. On track you are using a relatively narrow power band that restricts the SS/TMC benefits even further.

A drag race would be slightly different but it isn't until you get down to real world driving that the differences are really apparent.

If you had been driving the SS/TMC car you'd probably find yourself going that bit faster and possibly even holding a higher cornering speed thanks to the improved suspension in which case you might find yourself going a lot faster.

The only place you would really see the difference is on a torque curve from a rolling road run. Even then you may find that a good standard car isn't a bad match to a poor modified one.

Totally agree jimbro. I kept ahead/ pulled away from a couple of S1 Elises on a track day in my modded Panda last summer. I compete in amateur motorsport and I was commited in corners. Although the Panda is a reasonable match in terms of acceleration with an unmodified Elise, there is no way that should happen. The suspension in the Panda is just bad! The Elise drivers were enthusiastic, but had little track experience.

The beauty of the panda (or any front wheel drive car) is you can turn into a corner with lift off oversteer, get the car pointing the direction you want and then just floor the throttle - it sorts itself out. Sloppy but effective.

An elise on the other hand requires a degree of grace and consideration - do the same trick in one of those and you'll be going backwards or worse. On the other hand if you get it right in an elise you'll find the corner exit speeds much higher as you can put the power down earlier.

Racing my Dallara bears no comparison to racing the Punto I used or a trackday in my A500. The two activities might as well be completely different. I got an indirect ear wigging from Jonathan Palmer a few years ago for demonstrating how not to drive a car to a student at Brands Hatch. Said student went on to be incredibly smooth but ultimately quite slow as he lacked confidence, even driving the car badly I was lapping at near race speed. I couldn't have done that in the Dallara (apart from it only having one seat) it would have killed us.

Drive your car smoothly and learn to cope with the higher cornering speeds and it is worth an easy 50% hike in power compared to a sloppy but enthusiastic driver. I'm pretty sure you already know this but a lot of people out there don't appreciate just how much difference to a lap time the driver makes.

lewey said:

Considering the larger turbo, the peak power figure quoted is only a little more than an abarth turbo with the wick turned right up. I presume that the SS is at least holding boost a little better and that would give it more actual speed in reallifesvile?

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I would expect the EsseEsse to keep the boost for longer, yes.

I actually might be treating mine to EsseEsse soon

Anyone thought about fitting a bigger IHI turbo to the standard manifold instead of going the ss garrett route ? Same power at less cost

I didn't, but have fitted a hybrid Garrett T25 derived turbo I had on a Uno Turbo engine on a 1368 FIRE turbo, but am a little way off getting it mapped and car on the road. See the thread for more info.

jimbro1000 said:

The beauty of the panda (or any front wheel drive car) is you can turn into a corner with lift off oversteer, get the car pointing the direction you want and then just floor the throttle - it sorts itself out. Sloppy but effective.

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Agree, but I have a lift off understeer issue after fitting an LSD. I find it goes against all my FWD instincts and has left me with nowhere to go more than once now. If your improved traction relies on having a boot full of power, it gets tricky when you overcook. Lift off and you understeer straight off the track, lift a little and you are still accelerating to a possibly faster accident.

I agree with your sentiments about the speed that is gained with good cornering speed vs. a power hike. I rely on it since I am currently driving FIATs!

So now we are right off topic.

What LSD did you fit? I have one out of an Integra Type-R in my Seicento and it really doesn't upset the handling at all like that, the downside is that it only works when both wheels are on the floor otherwise it is really unintrusive.

If your car is oversteering that much I would suggest adopting a low-grip approach and left foot braking through the transition and keeping some power on all the time.

Can't do that in an AGP though - the throttle shuts as soon as you touch the brakes (back on topic see!)

jimbro1000 said:

What LSD did you fit? I have one out of an Integra Type-R in my Seicento and it really doesn't upset the handling at all like that, the downside is that it only works when both wheels are on the floor otherwise it is really unintrusive.

If your car is oversteering that much I would suggest adopting a low-grip approach and left foot braking through the transition and keeping some power on all the time.

Can't do that in an AGP though - the throttle shuts as soon as you touch the brakes (back on topic see!)

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The LSD is a Quaife ATB that was designed for the Fiat Forum for the C514 type box. I understand what you are saying about oversteering, but the car doesn't have an oversteer characteristic. It still feels like a very much understeering car, but goes really understeery with little power on! I am beginning to experiment with left foot braking and have found a positive effect, but it doesn't come naturally when I'm actually in trouble yet. Quite a lot of the problem is learning where the throttle should be to allow me to just tuck the nose back in when overcooking occurs. It's a bit of a narrow window in comparison to other cars I have driven.

Anyway, the Panda is really my everyday car, the Uno will take over track duty soon!

On the subject of tracking in an AGP or other modern FIAT, you can simply disconnect the big plug in the ABS ECU on track days. No ABS, traction control, ESP and full power all the time. If you want to left foot brake, pull the little plug from the brake pedal switch. That is all that tells the ECU you are braking. Obviously, you'll have no brake lights though.

A good friend of mine had his car fail scrutineering on the very first race he went to because an overenthusiastic engineer had stripped the brakelight circuit out and thrown the switch away. It took me a couple of hours including all the time to find the parts (including pilfering the switch from his tow car which just happened to use the same part), I ended up finishing the wiring in the back of the car while he drove down to the assembly area!

No brake lights on track is perhaps even worse than on the road!

I admit I haven't looked but I'd assumed that the brake light switch was hydraulic these days...

Anyone have any RR graphs from an EsseEsse (Since were off topic anyway)

I got 189.4 bhp // 219 lb ft.

Before exhaust / setting tweak to the tuning box it got: 184 bhp // 192.8 lb ft.

Will do I recon until /maybe/ i EsseEsse.

Hey guys, dont know if you interested but Rockingham Cars Abarth dealer are holding a track day in October at the Rockingham Motor Speedway, check out their website if your interested

ESSESSE said:

Hey guys, dont know if you interested but Rockingham Cars Abarth dealer are holding a track day in October at the Rockingham Motor Speedway, check out their website if your interested

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Aiii, I've seen, I don't think ill be making that one tho!

ta tho

jimbro1000 said:

I admit I haven't looked but I'd assumed that the brake light switch was hydraulic these days...

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No no, it is a double pole electric switch that the pedal (stem) hits, just like the clutch switch is. I've extracted and examined a few of the new range's electronics for use on older models, so am speaking from practical experience. The slightly less dirty answer to allow left foot braking and still have lights is to provide the correct lead of the four wires into the brake switch with 12v as it is a normally closed circuit for the brake notification to the engine ECU (and a separate normally open one for the brake lights).

Although I agree no brake lights on a normal trackday would be lethal, I had presumed it wouldn't be a requirement for proper racing. I have only competed in non-racing motorsport so far, so my knowledge is limited to that.

Outside of single seaters the brake light are an absolute must have.

You know how scary it is when the car in front on the road brakes and the lights don't work. Now imagine you are only a fraction of the distance behind and you're expecting the car in front is going to start braking in 100 metres but starts braking at 50 metres instead - scary just doesn't cover it.

If you're doing the job properly you've anticipated and avoided the situation but sometimes it just isn't possible - a classic racing incident but when you're paying for the repairs yourself it is something you really want to avoid

jimbro1000 said:

You can't compare the abilities of another car to your own unless you're driving both of them. On track days especially there is a huge spread of ability and it levels off at "fast road speed" before rising quite substantially to "truly committed/ex-racing driver".

If you are pushing your car that little bit harder and keeping a higher cornering speed then the small improvements to torque in the SS/TMC car will not be enough to make a noticible difference unless the drivers of those cars are doing the same. On track you are using a relatively narrow power band that restricts the SS/TMC benefits even further.

A drag race would be slightly different but it isn't until you get down to real world driving that the differences are really apparent.

If you had been driving the SS/TMC car you'd probably find yourself going that bit faster and possibly even holding a higher cornering speed thanks to the improved suspension in which case you might find yourself going a lot faster.

The only place you would really see the difference is on a torque curve from a rolling road run. Even then you may find that a good standard car isn't a bad match to a poor modified one.

Click to expand...

The guy in the AGP SS with TMC had to leave early because his son was feeling sick from all the fast driving

At least it was a *good* excuse for leaving early!

If it is any consolation even grown men tend to start feeling like that after any more than a few laps - I've had more than a few track marshalls in the passenger seat starting to look green when taken out for demo runs.