Technical Oil cap sludge.

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Technical Oil cap sludge.

Thank you for your answer, Jock. And yes, I am very much awake.
When, as you are here, thinking about the hot viscosity, which is where the 40 or 50 or whatever comes in, I think you need to think carefully about more than maybe the engine burning a little oil due to ring wear or because you are maybe trying to quieten a slightly knocking big end.
My engine is working just fine, like a charm mate, no knocks or anything. The ring wear on the other hand, as the engine has some milage on it and I have not touched the rings, I'm thinking there is some wear, although they are not damaged, it's not critical.
I've replaced all the seals on the engine, the ones on the cylinder head, valve seals and those of the engine at both ends, clutch and flywheel.
A good engine oil creates a film on the engine parts so that there is no friction between parts, hence no wear. That is what I'm after, a good protective film. And for that film, I'm thinking is not too good to use thinner oil, especially in the winter. You'll get no film, the oil just runs through.
As for the oil additives, I did use once Liqui Moly MoS2 and I just watched this youtube video now
https://youtu.be/UnNahISE_nU
I don't consider that test to be relevant at all and I find this comment below the video to be legit:
"The origin of this product was in WW2, when Rommel's tanks in Africa had difficults to get oil supply and the germans sent molibden in powder and put it with WATER in the engines, and worked. Later, Fangio tested a car that was filled with regular oil + liqui moly, then drained all the oil and without any lubricant except the protective molibden film left , drove the car 160 km at high speed in the Buenos Aires Autodromo. After inspection, the engine had no damage at all. Since then I use it in every vehicle I've had. My fist was a Ducati bike, and when our bikers group inspected our engines, mine always was in the best conditions, no signs of wear. The principle is that the molibden particles adeheres ONLY in the parts where more friction are, forming a physical shield in the (rare) event that oil fail to lubricate. Specially on engine cold starts. So, is an extra protection with no cons and cheap. BTW I have never need any kind of engine repair in my long life."

I used that additive exactly after replacing the engine seals and I was still missing oil from the engine. In the end, it turned out that I was losing oil through the rocker cover gasket as I just put a new gasket without sealing product. After sealing the gasket, all is good.
After I put the additive in the oil, the engine ran very smoothly, much better than before and mind you, before I woldn't complain on how the engine runs, but now it ran just like a new engine, smooth.
It did not do me any good on lost oil as I later discovered where I was losing oil. And by the time of discovering, a lot of enhanced oil got lost and I just topped it up with only oil.
Since then I'm thinking about what to do on next oil change: use liqui moly mos2 again or use that Motul 10W50 that I've mentioned.
And I am thinking about that because i saw this mentioned somewere: the oil specs work just fine on new engines, on used enginges it helps a lot to use a thicker oil. It makes sense to me because there is some wear on the rings, although a very small wear. And I don't think that that difference between 40 an 50 would oil starve parts of the engine. Or does it? I think this is the real question.

Motorcycle oil is a compromise..:
Thank you for your answer as well, Charlie.
I think this sums it up then. I'll be usig regular recommended oil, 10W40 plus LM MoS2.
 
Well Mike, You've already got my opinion on this. I'm in my '70s now and when I was young and at college I was fanatically interested in Drag racing. We, couple of good friends and myself, who were at the same college learning about motor vehicle repair, would be at Santa Pod, Blackbush, and other venues every weekend. The thing about Drag racing is that it's the target of very aggressive product advertising, especially additives. I got sucked in by a lot of the hype and would assiduously dose my wee 850 Mini or, later my 997 Anglia with various different "miracle" bottles of "stuff".

Then, as I learned more about the deepest guts of car mechanicals, I started questioning the efficacy of these products. When at college I would buy the cheapest oil which seemed to be of reasonable quality that I could find and then defeat the whole object of the exercise by supplementing it with expensive additive! I switched then to always buying an oil which exactly meets the oil specified for that engine by the manufacturer - and I've talked a lot about that above. It's also extremely important to keep a regular eye on the oil and if you think it's beginning to get really dirty then change it immediately and never go over the time/mileage recommendation of the manufacturer. - We have between 6 and 8 cars in the family at any one time and tend to buy cars which are about 18 months to 2 years old and then run them out until they become beyond economic repair. Most go to over the 100,000 miles and often expire due to bodywork corrosion. I can't remember when we've ever had an engine problem related to the lubricant itself. Thinking back to engine failures I've seen when I worked in garages they mostly related to customer neglect - ignoring oil change intervals - and, to my amazement, this is not uncommon! Not checking oil level so the engine suffers starvation, and often aeration of the oil supply due to low level. If your level is low you can get the pickup drawing air when cornering. This might be an even bigger problem on the newest generation of cars where the oil warning light is linked not directly to the oil pressure switch but to the ECU which needs to see low oil pressure for a finite time before switching on the light on the dash so it may not indicate a transient low pressure event. I've also seen many failures due to mechanical problems, valves through pistons for a variety of reasons Big end bolts - often just one initially - coming undone. Etc. These sort of problems however are not really lubricant related.

So, take it or leave it as you like, my advice is to use a good quality oil to the individual spec of the manufacturer for your particular engine and check levels often and change it frequently - even on a low mileage vehicle, like for instance our Panda or my Daughter's baby Skoda which do about 2 or 3 thousand miles annually and still get an oil change every year. I don't use oil additives in the engines and especially not in transmissions but I think there is a place for fuel additives especially when dosing on a regular basis to keep the system clean. One product I do use regularly is Moly grease but not in things like wheel bearing assemblies. I do use it for ball joints, king pins, CV joints and U/Js. or anything else which has relatively low speed component contact.

I think that there is a considerable psychological element where oil additives are concerned. My experience has been that they have been of little observable benefit in any situation I've encountered and that our cars tend to fail due to other factors, like rust. So the thing is, I've pretty much proved to myself that what I'm doing seems to work and I'm "happy" doing what I do. Peace of mind is a great thing though and if it gives you peace of mind to use products like these then you should - I think, at worst, all you can be doing is wasting your money where the engines are concerned but I do have grave reservations about using anything like this in gearboxes where I think they can do damage in some instances.

Whatever you decide I wish you many miles of carefree happy motoring!
 
I wish you many miles of carefree happy motoring!
Thank you Jock and I wish you the same on every one of your (and your family's) cars.
I know its very hard to teach an old dog new tricks and you seem to have good knowleage about engines.
But i'd be really intrested in your opinion about Moly MoS2 additive after you try it.
About wasting the money... it is not even expensive. I got it here with about 5 pounds. And as I've said, I could really feel an improvement so I will buy it again.
I did take care of my car, oilwise and otherwise and I used Selenia Gold 10W40 oil. Was just upset for the oil spill (and that is how the additivated oil flew away) and it was my fault cause I was kind of negativist, I just assumeed the rings must be worn out and didn't check carfully for where the oil is going. But it didn't take very long and I found where.
So, for a product that is not expensive at all, one that I used and impressed me in good way I cannot opt for not using it again.
I really understand your view and I've seen the market is saturated with "garbage" additives. That one was the first I've picked after reading what it does and as I've mentioned above, I would be really interested in your opinion after you use it, if you ever choose to give it a go.
 
Thank you Jock and I wish you the same on every one of your (and your family's) cars.
I know its very hard to teach an old dog new tricks and you seem to have good knowleage about engines.

But i'd be really intrested in your opinion about Moly MoS2 additive after you try it.

I did take care of my car, oilwise and otherwise and I used Selenia Gold 10W40 oil. Was just upset for the oil spill (and that is how the additivated oil flew away) and it was my fault cause I was kind of negativist, I just assumeed the rings must be worn out and didn't check carfully for where the oil is going. But it didn't take very long and I found where.
Hello again Mike - good name that, my surviving brother is a Mike too!

Selenia is an excellent oil - I think now being supplied by Petronas? and your engine will be liking it. Of course if you've got an actual leak, as you say you had, the engine doesn't hold all that much oil so the level can drop quite quickly. You say your engine has 225,000 miles on it so there is bound to be general wear, but you say it's running well and not making any excess "funny" noises. If it's not using lots of oil now you've fixed the leak, it may well still be in quite good order. You seem to be worrying a little bit about possible piston ring wear. There's a simple and cheap way to check that - do a compression check. I'm not sure what a good compression pressure for your engine might be but as a general rule of thumb if you are around 120psi with all cylinders reasonably equal (ie maybe within 5 to 10 psi) then you've probably got nothing to worry about. Don't worry too much about absolute pressure on an older engine, concentrate more on the comparison between the cylinders. If you've got say No1 at 118, No2 at 125, No3 at 75 and no4 at 120 then you would have a problem on No3. You can then go on to check if it's rings by dribbling a few cc's of neat engine oil into the cylinders through the spark plug holes. Spin the engine briefly on the starter just to expel any excess oil (or you might get a hydraulic lock if you've put too much oil in) - watch out you don't give yourself an oil shower! Then repeat the compression check. The oil film now around the worn rings will give a noticeable increase of pressure on that cylinder whereas it will not give much (but it will give a small) increase in a cylinder with good rings. If you've got poor valve sealing then it won't increase the compression

I find it interesting that you have chosen a product with Moly (Molybdenum Disulfide) additive as it's active constituent as I actually like Mole D but only in specific circumstances. This might interest you: https://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/d...e is a solid,, niobium, tantalum and titanium.

I first started using Moly grease when I briefly rallied a 1964 Mini Cooper "S". I was for ever de-shimming the front suspension ball joints because they wore quickly. I read about Molyslip HMP grease and decided to give it a go and it very considerably slowed down the wear. I then started using it for just about everything where I had before been using Castrol LM high melting point grease. However I read that it should not be used in roller/ball bearing races as it's so "slippy" that it can cause the rollers/balls to "skid rather than roll and this can cause problems so I went back to using a "proper High Melting point grease in wheel bearings etc. To this day though I use it all the time for general chassis lubrication.

I would not put a Moly lubricant anywhere near a manual gearbox. This is mainly because a certain amount of friction is needed for the synchro ring cones to "bite" when you are changing gear. If you introduce something "super slippy", like moly, you can probably expect problems later with syncros (and that's going to cost) I have put Molyslip in a couple of rear axle differentials (my old Anglia being one back in the '60s) and it did pretty much stop it whining for a good 6 months. I still had to eventually strip it and fit new pinion bearings though, but by then it was summer so nice and warm for lying in the street. Of course a normal rear axle only has gears and bearings in it - Don't ever put it in a limited slip dif!

So what about engines. Well, I think the "slippyness" factor of Moly, which seems well proven, is a good thing. Especially when considering contact surfaces like camshaft lobes and followers. Probably piston ring/bore contact and other surfaces will benefit also. I'm a lot less happy with the fact that Moly is a solid - kind of like a powder - and I suspect it may have a slight tendency to become trapped in the oil filter element and, possibly add to the shortening of it's life. I also have concerns about using it with a turbo'd engine. I'm not sure how it would behave under the extreme temperatures which can be experienced in turbos - I'm thinking especially of the sort of temps developed if you've been bombing down the motorway for a while so turbo temps will be very high, then you pull into a service area, park up and kill the engine, as most people will do of course. Under these circumstances you have a turbo casing which could well be almost, or actually, glowing red hot and by stopping the engine you've just stopped the oil from flowing through the turbo casing and spindle bearings. Under these circumstances it's well known the oil can burn onto the extremely hot spindle and bearing bushings. What does Moly do when heated to such extremes? might it carburise, become solid, and block the oil holes in the turbo bushings? I'd rather just not add this as a possible problem. I'm in the habit of letting a turbo'd engine idle for a few minutes in these circumstances to keep the oil circulating which will help the turbo cool somewhat before i kill the engine. In fact my Ibiza has a secondary electrically powered water pump which keeps coolant circulating round it's water cooled turbo after switch off to try to combat this - I still let it idle while Mrs J is sorting out the picnic though. I'm actually much more concerned though that being a solid it may tend to settle out of suspension in "quiet corners" of the engine and start to build up solid deposits combining with the sludge which all older engines seem to unavoidably have to endure. I've really never stripped an older engine without finding some sludge/muck tucked away in the corners where the oil does not circulate with any force.

Finally I find myself wondering if, on a high mileage engine, you might be better off using an oil specifically designed for slightly worn high mileage engines? This might be of interest? https://www.machinerylubrication.co... mileage motor oils,with 75,000 miles or more.
 
Morning all,
At the weekend I carried out my quarterly checks (only had the car 3 months) I checked water, oil topped up fluids etc.
I opened the oil filler cap for some reason as I don’t usually do it.
It was very stiff to open but once I did!!
I found basically a plug of oil/creamy residue inside the cap and in the engine itself. After the panic had subsided I checked again. Water was fine, dipstick oil was clear so I suspect it’s not head gasket.
The dealer has it back to investigate further.
It seems like with the recent cold weather combined with my short journeys to work that the engine isn’t getting to optimum temperature causing the condensation build up.
Should hear from the garage today what the likely cause is and I’d rather look stupid and it be nothing than leave it and the engine seize up.
Hello Gazz. I was just out doing a wee levels etc check on the Ibiza and Panda - thankfully no problems - and because I remembered this post of yours, and because our Panda is dreadfully "abused" because it spends most of it's life going shopping with my Mrs and has had a malfunctioning thermostat for over a year now which prevents it getting properly hot. Also it's been pretty cold up here recently, I thought to myself that your filler cap Mayo problem would probably look mild compared to ours. Imagine my surprise then when I took it off only to see this:

P1090537.JPG

By the way our cap is also quite tight to initially get moving. Of course I'm delighted, I was expecting for it to look like your's or even worse! This might be due to the fact that I remove the breather pipe and blow it out at every service?
 
This might be due to the fact that I remove the breather pipe and blow it out at every service?

That helps a lot, that's for sure.
Regarding Gazz's problem, a possible reason for that may be oil cap gasket. If that is worn out, it allows water form atmospheric humidity to condense into the engine.
Tha cap is normal to be tight considering that it screws into aluminum and that is what aluminum does, especially after it gets heaten, it tightens the hold of things that are screwd into it.
 
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I have a question related to the original problem in this post.
The FIAT cars do not have the PCV valve?
And I am especially interested if my Punto has one, it is 1.2 8V 2006.
 
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To take this thread to a whole new level. Grant at Gendan just posted this clip in his latest regular news letter. I just couldn't resist passing it on here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY1ubpMToJI

It brought to my mind an incident when I first met the future Mrs J's sister in the late 60's. She owned a Triumph Herald which was obviously badly neglected - The oil looked like black paint and she couldn't even tell me when it had last been serviced I was by then almost finished at college and the college actually ran it's own garage where students near the end of their courses would get, under very strict supervision, to work on road going vehicles. I suggested that the next time she went away on a long haul flight - she was a BOAC stewardess/flight purser - I take the Herald into the garage and give it a very thorough service and going over. When I pulled the sump plug I was rewarded with only about a pint and a half of extremely dirty oil. Oh dear. Oh well, it's going to love some new oil. However I could only get about a couple of pints in before it hit the full mark on the dip stick! In my youthful ignorance I'd no idea what was going on so consulted with our instructor. "How long have you got the car for"? he asked. Well, on long haul she could be away for a week or more. "Right, drop the sump" The more experienced among you will know what is coming next. The sump was full of a semi-solid black jelly. Looked a bit like black swarfega would look if you can imagine? There was a small area around the pickup where most of the liquid oil was.

I cleaned the whole thing out with our high pressure steam cleaner, inside the crankcase too, let it dry overnight with the garage heater under it (it was up on a lift) refitted the sump and filled with oil before winding it over on the starter with the plugs out 'till the oil warning light went out. When she started she ran beautifully and went on for many more miles with me now looking after her. I remember I had to do the plastic trunnion bushes front and rear too which were so bad as to be almost through to the bolts! Can't imagine getting away with that on a modern motor, can you?
 
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