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Old 27-04-2016   #1
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Replace halogen headlights with HID

Hi.

I have a similar problem to storm0105 in thread 296897-please-help-xenon-lights.html

I wanted to get "proper" HID's for the car and have bought OEM UK spec headlight units from eBay (sound familiar!?).

I have two questions for the forum.
1) Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the headlights HID and non-HID?
2) Can anyone identify the function of the parts inside an HID headlight (see below)

(Number 1)
First the major problem.... They are not plug and play (as the photos on the thread show) Does anyone have the pinout for the HID and the Halogen headlights?

Halogen have connectors which have 5 pins connected. the central line of 4 and one additional one. The connector itself has a single row of 4 pins and two pairs above and below, a total of 8 pins

HID's I don't know, but they appear to have two rows of 5 pins, with a pair of connectors above and below them. In total 14 pins.

The HID unit has a number of bits in it. On the base is the controller box, with the high voltage for the light.

(Number 2)
Inside the light there is the passenger count levelling unit (controlled from the dash with the + and - buttons - allows you to control for people in the car) and another controller under the light which I can't work out.

Any help appreciated... or I'll have to strip the light down and refit with "known" parts which is a royal PIA!
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Old 27-04-2016   #2
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

It's all been said already in storm0105's thread.

Read Davren's reply.

You can't upgrade to bi-Xenon lighting just by changing the clusters, irrespective of whether those clusters are OEM parts or not.

Unless you also fit all the associated self-levelling suspension parts, sensors, controls and wiring, all you'll succeed in doing is to make your car illegal, dangerous and a hazard to everyone you meet on the road.

Illumination height must be driven by the car's self-levelling system (which your car hasn't got) - you don't control HID levelling manually using buttons on the dashboard.

I don't know of anyone who's done this conversion legally; it's theoretically possible, but the parts alone would cost you a fortune (the suspension arms alone are silly money - as anyone who's needed to replace one has found to their cost). It'd be cheaper to trade the car in for one with Bi-Xenon lighting already fitted.

The best advice is the advice given in that thread - return what you have bought for a refund.
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Last edited by jrkitching; 27-04-2016 at 08:38.
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Old 27-04-2016   #3
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

If you go back to stock spec, I've found these to be the best bulbs of all those out there, if it's any help,
http://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/H1-...ulbs-Pair.html
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Old 27-04-2016   #4
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

The factory fitted Bi-xenons also have a mechanical washer system too which is linked to your windscreen washer.


I specifically ordered these on my new 500 as a 600+ option because retrofit ones are nowhere near as good.


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Old 27-04-2016   #5
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

Quote Originally Posted by John202020 View Post
If you go back to stock spec, I've found these to be the best bulbs of all those out there, if it's any help,
http://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/H1-...ulbs-Pair.html
It's Philips, Osram or General Electrics, stay away from the rest.
And beware of anything offered on Ebay, most are overpriced fake bulbs...
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Old 27-04-2016   #6
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

As stated by others above, to be legal HIDs must have:
1. Self-leveling beams
2. A headlamp wash system


Don't know if these are checked as part of an MoT - they should be.
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Old 27-04-2016   #7
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

Quote Originally Posted by TrevC View Post
As stated by others above, to be legal HIDs must have:
1. Self-leveling beams
2. A headlamp wash system


Don't know if these are checked as part of an MoT - they should be.
Have a look at this document and pay particular attention to section 1.7.

Note reason for rejection 1.7.2:

"A headlamp levelling or cleaning device inoperative or otherwise obviously defective"

Any competent MOT tester will know that a 500 fitted with HID's should have headlamp washers and self levellers. If these items aren't even fitted, it doesn't get much more obviously defective than that.

Amateur home tinkerers seeking to cobble together some sort of hybrid system out of a mixture of OEM parts have more than the law, VOSA and MOT's to worry about. There's 50,000 volts floating around in the innards of these things and they might just find out first hand about Darwin's theories on evolution.
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Last edited by jrkitching; 27-04-2016 at 13:26.
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Old 27-04-2016   #8
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

MOT hid/washers, headlamp washers must work with hid lights Where fitted as standard(washers), never had a mot issue with my old Accord that I fitted hid too, though it came with washers standard and manual leveling also had hid fog lights
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Old 27-04-2016   #9
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

Is it that the regs only apply on vehicles manufactured after a certain date? If so, it must go back a fair way. The 2002 Laguna I had some years ago had HIDs as standard, complete with self-levelling and washers.
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Old 28-04-2016   #10
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

Thanks for the reply.
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Old 28-04-2016   #11
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

Strange - lost my reply.
@Peter Pick-Up - I agree with this - non-genuine parts are a pain.

Back to my lights. I cant send them back the company went out of business, so I am going to work with them. I understand the requirements of the law (@jrkitching - thanks for the detailed response) - but I have used aftermarket HID's for years, always replacing the headlamp unit to ensure I don't blind people. I have never had an MoT rejection because of them.

Back to one of my original questions.
Does some kind person have a workshop manual with the electrical pinout for the headlights. HID and normal?

Also (more easily)
Does anyone have HID's who could try the +/- buttons on the side of the speedo cowl to see if they have an effect?

Thanks
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Last edited by lukewest; 28-04-2016 at 17:43. Reason: incomplete reply
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Old 28-04-2016   #12
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

Quote Originally Posted by lukewest View Post
Does some kind person have a workshop manual with the electrical pinout for the headlights. HID and normal?
You can download the eLEARN workshop manual from the forum downloads section here: https://www.fiatforum.com/downloads.php?categoryid=11
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Old 29-04-2016   #13
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

@Davren - Many thanks :-)
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Old 01-05-2016   #14
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

There are some misconceptions on here. And people should ensure that they are furnished with the correct information before getting on the moral high horse. You don't need headlamp washers or self levelling for the car to be legal.

Our 1997 Mitsubishi FTO GPvR was fitted from factory with HID headlamps. Only the Version R had these and the car had no self levelling or wash system. It passed an SVA test and MOT on entering the UK after import from Japan and passed all consequent MOT's thereafter without quibble.

Self levelling and washer system only have to work if fitted. Which they are on new cars. Therefore you can happily retro fit OEM HID headlamps and not fall foul to any laws regarding such. It is a very common modification on Clio 172/182 Cup and Trophy models that were not fitted with them, only the "full fat" 172/182's got them standard, and on MK5 Golfs as only the R32 had them standard and they were and expensive optional extra when new.

Government publication from 2010 on the matter which I wil quote from;


"In the Department for Transport's (DfT) view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern"

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...-headlamps.pdf
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Old 01-05-2016   #15
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

The same publication goes on to say:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. - who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam
.

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