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Old 02-05-2016   #16
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

Just looked at the government MoT test regs. They include::
Operation, including High Intensity Discharge (HID) and light emitting diodes (LED)
The headlamps for cleaning, self-levelling and security.

Therefore, any test station that allows HIDs without cleaning and levelling is very lax, or ignorant of the current regulations.
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Old 02-05-2016   #17
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

MOT tests also state that you check the condition of wiper blades if fitted and that the windscreen is not chipped in the designated areas above a prescribed size. If you remove your windscreen which you are entitled to do so legally it is not a failure even if car was made with one, and then you don't need wiper blades, therefore you pass the MOT. My friend is an MOT tester for Mercedes Benz but has worked for FORD and various independents over his 15 year career and likes to spot these often overlooked idiosyncrasies held within the MOT regulations.

It is the same with cleaning and levelling it is a manufacturers necessity to meet homologation requirements that came into force from 1998, and as such is fitted from factory, but is only checked that it operates if fitted therefore if you retro fit headlamps it is not. Hence why our perfectly legal Mistsubishi FTO GPvR built in 1997 and therefore predating European regulations has no self levelling or washing system. Some FTO's are registered as built in 1998 and will pass not only strict SVA test but MOT on entering the UK. The MOT test is as designed meant to test that what is fitted. It can't discriminate against cars such as the FTO which didn't have such systems fitted. Therefore you can fit the OEM HID headlamps and not fit washing or leaving systems. It really is that simple.

I should add I believe the rules on fitting aftermarket HID systems to old style halogen headlamps is proper in its statement, and should be adhered to as there is nothing worse than poor light splatter from cheap systems fitted where they do not belong.
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Old 02-05-2016   #18
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

Quote Originally Posted by J333EVO View Post
Therefore you can fit the OEM HID headlamps and not fit washing or leaving systems.
Irrespective as to whether the car may or may not pass an MOT in the UK (which in the final analysis would be down to the individual tester on the day), fitting OEM HID headlamps without the corresponding washing and levelling systems to any post - 1998 car not so homologated at the time of original manfacture is still illegal, as the link you kindly attached to your previous post states quite clearly (reproduced below).

Please do not make the mistake of confusing the requirements of the law with what you think you might be able to get away with. Anyone bragging on a public forum about making illegal, dangerous and antisocial modifications to a vehicle which is to used on the public highway demonstrates a level of arrogance, selfishness and lack of concern for other road users that I find, quite frankly, disgusting.

Please kindly refrain from making such posts in future.
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Old 02-05-2016   #19
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

Clearly it states "in practice" and does not infer that it is black and white clear cut law. The EC regulation is in reference to the manufacture of cars, not the UK rules on MOT's. As cars have been built with these lights and no mention of LED or HID lights is made in the earlier 1989 Road Vehicle Lighting regulations they are in fact all illegal factory fitted or not. But that is unreasonable to exclude those cars.

"NOTE: The information in this document is a summary of DfT’s understanding of what the law requires. However, ultimately the interpretation of the law is a matter for the courts based on individual facts of any particular case. You are therefore advised to consult the relevant legislation and, if necessary, seek independent advice."

Are you a lawyer which specialises in the interpretation of vehicular transportation rules and regulations?

If so I will bow to your expert and through knowledge. Though why would you frequent a forum for car owners if you were?

If not, which is more than likely the case, I request that forewith that an apology is given by you on the besmirching of my character as I did not once brag about any modification that I have done.

Your comments come across as bullying and childish, attributes that are not welcome in any section of society least of all a public forum by an individual who is meant to be a moderator. It really shows how this once wonderful forum has slipped from its once held heady heights.
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Old 02-05-2016   #20
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

Quote Originally Posted by J333EVO View Post
I request that forewith that an apology is given by you on the besmirching of my character as I did not once brag about any modification that I have done.
My comment was not directed at you specifically but at anyone making such a modification. At no time have I stated or implied that you had made such a modification yourself.

Quote Originally Posted by J333EVO View Post
Your comments come across as bullying and childish, attributes that are not welcome in any section of society least of all a public forum by an individual who is meant to be a moderator.
That's how you've chosen to interpret my comments; as moderator of a public forum, I cannot condone anyone modifying a car when the latest government guidance on the subject is that the modification would not be lawful.

My statement that fitting HID's without the associated ancilliary components is dangerous, selfish and antisocial is simply my own opinion, and I stand by it.
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Old 02-05-2016   #21
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
My comment was not directed at you specifically but at anyone making such a modification. At no time have I stated or implied that you had made such a mdification yourself.
You quoted me and therefore by inference it is directed at me. It is easy to apologise for your accord if indeed it was misinterpreted by me.

I should also add Laser lights as now fitted to the new facelifted Audi R8 and BMW i8 are a whole new ball game.
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Old 02-05-2016   #22
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

Quote Originally Posted by J333EVO View Post
You quoted me and therefore by inference it is directed at me. It is easy to apologise for your accord if indeed it was misinterpreted by me.
As I've said, my comments weren't specifically aimed at your good self; and I apologise to you if you've interpreted them in that way.

Quote Originally Posted by J333EVO View Post
I should also add Laser lights as now fitted to the new facelifted Audi R8 and BMW i8 are a whole new ball game.
Indeed.

When it comes to finding ways to circumvent the spirit of the regulations whilst staying within the strict interpretation of the law, manufacturers are perhaps the most guilty of the lot - not least because they should know better. You need look no further than recent emissions scandals for evidence of this sort of behaviour.

And to return to topic, there are indeed many anomolies and inconsistencies between the construction and use regulations, homologation requirements, and current MOT testing rules. For example, in Northern Ireland, the MOT test specifically requires that washers and self levellers be both present and working on ALL cars fitted with HID's, even those that were officially homologated without them - IIRC there have been specific instances of such cars (some mitsi evo's and a few pre-2000 Renaults) being unable to pass an MOT in NI.

Debating these inconsistencies here is both interesting and welcomed. Deliberately trying to circumvent the spirit of the rules in a way that's likely to inconvenience other road users isn't (and for avoidance of doubt, this latter statement isn't directed at anyone in particular).
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Old 06-05-2016   #23
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

@Davren - I have downloaded the eLEARN CD you uploaded. It has some of the information I'm after, but nothing for the Xenon/HID lighting wiring. Is there an older or a different version available?
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Old 06-05-2016   #24
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

Quote Originally Posted by lukewest View Post
I have downloaded the eLEARN CD you uploaded. It has some of the information I'm after, but nothing for the Xenon/HID lighting wiring. Is there an older or a different version available?
I've not looked at the 500 eLEARN, this is where it is in the Stilo eLEARN.

Electrical equipment - Electrical functions - E20 Interior lighting - E2011 Dipped headlamps (Xenon gas headlamps), or E2012 Main beam (Xenon gas headlamps).

Electrical equipment - Electrical functions - E30 Electrically activated devices - E3080 Headlamp alignment corrector (Xenon gas headlamps).
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Old 07-05-2016   #25
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

@Davren
Thanks for the info, but... I don't have the Xenon option in mine, only the "normal" stuff.
The iso which was created from the download doesn't have a version number but I do have the following information : Title "Fiat 500 Nuova.iso" Date: 5 May 2010, Size: 509.4 Mb.

I have tried looking at each model - 1.2 8v, 1.3 Multijet, 1.4 16v - they all appear the same. The 1.4 TB gives nothing: "The engine and production validities selected do not correspond to valid documents, Restart the navigation from: Electrical equipment"

If I try to search for Xenon I get no matches...

Following your instructions
Electrical equipment > 1 ELECTRICAL FUNCTIONS > E20 EXTERIOR LIGHTING

Gives me the following options:
E2010 SIDE LIGHTS / NO. PLATE LIGHTS
E2011 DIPPED HEADLAMPS
E2012 MAIN BEAM HEADLAMPS
E2020 DIRECTION INDICATORS / HAZARD WARNING LIGHTS
E2021 BRAKE LIGHTS
E2022 REVERSING LIGHTS
E2030 FOG LIGHTS
E2031 REAR FOG LAMPS

Similarly if I look for the Alignment system I get the following options:
E3010 HORNS
E3020 WINDSCREEN WASH/WIPE
E3021 REAR WINDOW WASH/WIPE
E3030 DEFROSTING REARSCREEN AND REAR VIEW MIRRORS
E3032 DOOR MIRROR ADJUSTMENT
E3040 CENTRAL LOCKING
E3050 ELECTRIC FRONT WINDOWS
E3060 SUN ROOF
E3070 CIGAR LIGHTER / CURRENT SOCKET
E3080 HEADLAMP AGLINMENT CORRECTOR
E3090 PARKING SENSOR

The thing I really would find most useful is the pdf generate from this page:
Descriptions > 55 ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT > 5540 EXTERIOR LIGHTING

If it is easier to find in your version of eLEARN then I would really appreciate it if you could generate this.

Many (many) thanks
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Old 10-05-2016   #26
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

@Davren - any chance of getting that data to me - I would like to fix the lights this weekend...

Thanks
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Old 10-05-2016   #27
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

Quote Originally Posted by lukewest View Post
@Davren - any chance of getting that data to me - I would like to fix the lights this weekend...

Thanks
As you mentioned above, I uploaded the 500 eLEARN manual, so my copy will be the same as the one you downloaded. If the information you want is not in your copy, then it won't be in mine either.
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Old 10-05-2016   #28
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

@Davren - thanks for the prompt response.

I have read your post again and seen that you were using the STILO eLEARN cd. Duh... sorry.....

I can find the data :-)

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Old 14-04-2017   #29
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

Putting aside the legal side of things, I replace my(Dip) halogen headlamp bulbs in my Mazda that were "Dreadful/verging on dangerous" Sport variant cars have Hid mine isn't a sport so had peasant candles.
The result was truly amazing at total revelation very good light output, correct "bright spot", correct cut off, I bought a "quality" (Chinese made) kit from a UK supplier at 5x the standard Ebay price, if you want to try this route this is the kit for you;
http://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/H1-...ulb_search=car
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Old 14-04-2017   #30
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Re: Replace halogen headlights with HID

You cannot put "aside the legal side of things". What you have done make your car illegal to use on UK roads, no if's, but's or maybe's.

There are also the laws of physics, The optical syatem of a light designed for a halogen filament lamp cannot give the correct pattern and intensity when used with a HID lamp. If the orginal design was poor with the correct lamps putting the wrong type of lamp in can't make it better. You are deluding yourself. You say "ery good light output, correct "bright spot", correct cut off," how do you know? have you got the correct photometric equipment to measure the performance of the lights?
It's not easy or cheap to design (design has got easier with computer ray tracing and CAD/CAM) and approve a car light. This s why kit and low production cars tend use lights off production vehicles. There were earlier comments about EU vehicles with HID/LED lights Some of these DON'T meet UK regulation (C&U & lighting) but are LEGAL because as members of the EU we have to accept cars homulgated under EU rules. It will interesting to see if this changes with brexit.

Robert G8RPI.
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