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Old 18-09-2013   #16
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Re: Tyre wear -vs- driving style

UFI, the reason why in the uk, they advise to put new tyres on the rear is more about everyday cornering in the wet.

Driving in Perth or even country WA is a completely different thing to driving in the UK.

I personally rotate my tyres so as to even the wear out. So a difference in tread depth is not a big issue for me.
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Old 18-09-2013   #17
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Re: Tyre wear -vs- driving style

Quote Originally Posted by RobW View Post
have you considered a set of winter wheels/tyres?
In all the years I have been driving (since 1968) I have never considered winter tyres, but maybe something I will give thought to.
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Old 18-09-2013   #18
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Re: Tyre wear -vs- driving style

When it's snowing the difference is really amazing. I was driving past stuck 4x4's in my 500 with 4 season tyres (not even full winter boots!)
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Old 19-09-2013   #19
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Re: Tyre wear -vs- driving style

Quote Originally Posted by chas379 View Post
In all the years I have been driving (since 1968) I have never considered winter tyres, but maybe something I will give thought to.
Fully advocate winter tyres. I had to get them in 09/10 as I had the BMW. After being able to drive pretty much anywhere; snow, ice, slush,up hills, round corners, steer and brake whilst everyone else just slid wherever the momentum took them I'm a true convert. I also owned an A3 Quattro at the same time and the BMW on winters was better than the A3.

Since then I run them on all my cars. Qashqai is 4WD and it has winter boots (16" alloys, down from18") and the A500 runs 16" as well (summers are 17").

Its a personal choice though, and TBH on cold dry roads or damp/greasy roads the winters aren't as good (top brands mind) but once the icy, white stuff starts to appear they definitely excel !
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Old 20-09-2013   #20
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Re: Tyre wear -vs- driving style

It is worth nothing that your owner manual advises NOT to rotate the tyres (ie fronts to rears and vice-versa). The reason is that your car has very different camber on the rear to the front and as a result your rear tyres will wear more on the inside edge and once this wear pattern starts it alters the way the tyre would sit, wear and handle if moved to the front. The front tyres tend to wear flat and this has a lot to do with where you actually loose rubber.

As for putting tyres on the rear - it all comes down to water displacement. A road tyre will only displace water up to a depth roughly equal to the tread depth and after that it aquaplanes which means no grip at all and your stability control can do nothing about it. An understeering car is much safer so you put the fresh tyres on the rear or the alternative is very messy.

In general driving in a straight line doesn't wear the tyres much at all, even hard acceleration and braking (with ABS and traction control especially) doesn't do much. The tyres need to get hot first and this only really happens when cornering. Lots of fast cornering preceded by heavy braking and/or followed by hard acceleration will wear the tyres. Get them hot enough and the rubber melts and the tyres will wear out in minutes, not 1000s of miles.

A lot of this depends on how smooth you are - the difference between smooth driver input and harsh driver input is amazing and it shows most on the tyres. Sharp, sudden input will heat the tyres more, much more and the result is immediate tyre wear. Smooth input helps to keep the tyres from overheating.

All of that said the steering geometry on the Abarth 500 does not lend itself to tyre longevity, the rear camber combined with a fairly pointy front end setup means you will wear the tyres out. 8000 miles for a front pair is fairly average...
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Old 20-09-2013   #21
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Re: Tyre wear -vs- driving style

Quote Originally Posted by jimbro1000 View Post
It is worth nothing that your owner manual advises NOT to rotate the tyres (ie fronts to rears and vice-versa). The reason is that your car has very different camber on the rear to the front and as a result your rear tyres will wear more on the inside edge and once this wear pattern starts it alters the way the tyre would sit, wear and handle if moved to the front. The front tyres tend to wear flat and this has a lot to do with where you actually loose rubber.

As for putting tyres on the rear - it all comes down to water displacement. A road tyre will only displace water up to a depth roughly equal to the tread depth and after that it aquaplanes which means no grip at all and your stability control can do nothing about it. An understeering car is much safer so you put the fresh tyres on the rear or the alternative is very messy.

In general driving in a straight line doesn't wear the tyres much at all, even hard acceleration and braking (with ABS and traction control especially) doesn't do much. The tyres need to get hot first and this only really happens when cornering. Lots of fast cornering preceded by heavy braking and/or followed by hard acceleration will wear the tyres. Get them hot enough and the rubber melts and the tyres will wear out in minutes, not 1000s of miles.

A lot of this depends on how smooth you are - the difference between smooth driver input and harsh driver input is amazing and it shows most on the tyres. Sharp, sudden input will heat the tyres more, much more and the result is immediate tyre wear. Smooth input helps to keep the tyres from overheating.

All of that said the steering geometry on the Abarth 500 does not lend itself to tyre longevity, the rear camber combined with a fairly pointy front end setup means you will wear the tyres out. 8000 miles for a front pair is fairly average...
Good stuff. Very true about wear due to camber. With up to 1.5 degrees on the front and up to .75 degree toe out (limit for Abarth) I'm sure the inside edges will wear more.
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Old 20-09-2013   #22
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Re: Tyre wear -vs- driving style

Quote Originally Posted by jimbro1000 View Post
It is worth nothing that your owner manual advises NOT to rotate the tyres (ie fronts to rears and vice-versa). The reason is that your car has very different camber on the rear to the front and as a result your rear tyres will wear more on the inside edge and once this wear pattern starts it alters the way the tyre would sit, wear and handle if moved to the front. The front tyres tend to wear flat and this has a lot to do with where you actually loose rubber.

As for putting tyres on the rear - it all comes down to water displacement. A road tyre will only displace water up to a depth roughly equal to the tread depth and after that it aquaplanes which means no grip at all and your stability control can do nothing about it. An understeering car is much safer so you put the fresh tyres on the rear or the alternative is very messy.

In general driving in a straight line doesn't wear the tyres much at all, even hard acceleration and braking (with ABS and traction control especially) doesn't do much. The tyres need to get hot first and this only really happens when cornering. Lots of fast cornering preceded by heavy braking and/or followed by hard acceleration will wear the tyres. Get them hot enough and the rubber melts and the tyres will wear out in minutes, not 1000s of miles.

A lot of this depends on how smooth you are - the difference between smooth driver input and harsh driver input is amazing and it shows most on the tyres. Sharp, sudden input will heat the tyres more, much more and the result is immediate tyre wear. Smooth input helps to keep the tyres from overheating.

All of that said the steering geometry on the Abarth 500 does not lend itself to tyre longevity, the rear camber combined with a fairly pointy front end setup means you will wear the tyres out. 8000 miles for a front pair is fairly average...
indeed, if you did this on Alfa 156's the front wishbones failed prematurely
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Old 20-09-2013   #23
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Re: Tyre wear -vs- driving style

Quote Originally Posted by jimbro1000 View Post
It is worth nothing that your owner manual advises NOT to rotate the tyres (ie fronts to rears and vice-versa). The reason is that your car has very different camber on the rear to the front and as a result your rear tyres will wear more on the inside edge and once this wear pattern starts it alters the way the tyre would sit, wear and handle if moved to the front. The front tyres tend to wear flat and this has a lot to do with where you actually loose rubber.

As for putting tyres on the rear - it all comes down to water displacement. A road tyre will only displace water up to a depth roughly equal to the tread depth and after that it aquaplanes which means no grip at all and your stability control can do nothing about it. An understeering car is much safer so you put the fresh tyres on the rear or the alternative is very messy.

In general driving in a straight line doesn't wear the tyres much at all, even hard acceleration and braking (with ABS and traction control especially) doesn't do much. The tyres need to get hot first and this only really happens when cornering. Lots of fast cornering preceded by heavy braking and/or followed by hard acceleration will wear the tyres. Get them hot enough and the rubber melts and the tyres will wear out in minutes, not 1000s of miles.

A lot of this depends on how smooth you are - the difference between smooth driver input and harsh driver input is amazing and it shows most on the tyres. Sharp, sudden input will heat the tyres more, much more and the result is immediate tyre wear. Smooth input helps to keep the tyres from overheating.

All of that said the steering geometry on the Abarth 500 does not lend itself to tyre longevity, the rear camber combined with a fairly pointy front end setup means you will wear the tyres out. 8000 miles for a front pair is fairly average...


If I remember correctly Fiat 500 manual says to rotate tires?
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Old 20-09-2013   #24
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Re: Tyre wear -vs- driving style

Tbh i doubt a 500 is that sensitive. MacPherson strut suspension isn't going to care one bit.

I've got an Abarth san-tjet and I've rotated my tyres and all is fine and I've never had issues over almost 56k miles.
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Old 20-09-2013   #25
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Re: Tyre wear -vs- driving style

Quote Originally Posted by 306maxi View Post
Tbh i doubt a 500 is that sensitive. MacPherson strut suspension isn't going to care one bit.

I've got an Abarth san-tjet and I've rotated my tyres and all is fine and I've never had issues over almost 56k miles.
also your car isn't lowered on stiff suspension
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Old 20-09-2013   #26
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Re: Tyre wear -vs- driving style

I doubt that'll make any difference. 156's and 147's eat arms regardless of being base engine ones or gta's
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Old 20-09-2013   #27
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Re: Tyre wear -vs- driving style

Quote Originally Posted by ahmett View Post
If I remember correctly Fiat 500 manual says to rotate tires?
Mine definitely says "DO NOT" this isn't a Fiat 500 though - it is an Abarth 500 and contrary to popular opinion it really does make a difference.
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Old 20-09-2013   #28
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Re: Tyre wear -vs- driving style

Quote Originally Posted by 306maxi View Post
Tbh i doubt a 500 is that sensitive. MacPherson strut suspension isn't going to care one bit.

I've got an Abarth san-tjet and I've rotated my tyres and all is fine and I've never had issues over almost 56k miles.
So please explain why MacP suspension is going to be more tolerant instead of less?
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