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Technical Master cylinder failure

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Technical Master cylinder failure

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Stuart J

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Anyone had a master cylinder failure. It appears the seals in ours have started breaking up , contaminated the fluid & taken out the slave as well

Cars out of warranty but only done just over 35000 miles.

Faced with a bill looking to be north of a grand I'm a tadge underwhelmed

Just want to see if this is a common fault

Also is it the same cylinder as the normal 500, if yes might be more info on that section of the forum

Thanks
 
Stuart J said:
Anyone had a master cylinder failure. It appears the seals in ours have started breaking up , contaminated the fluid & taken out the slave as well

Cars out of warranty but only done just over 35000 miles.

Faced with a bill looking to be north of a grand I'm a tadge underwhelmed

Just want to see if this is a common fault

Also is it the same cylinder as the normal 500, if yes might be more info on that section of the forum

Thanks
Click to expand...

Clutch or brake?

Not many problems reported for the brake hydraulic system, but the clutch one on RHD cars is cheap rubbish. I've reported on this before and I'd say if you don't regularly change the clutch fluid, it's an odds on certainty to fail within the first five years.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear of a clutch hydraulic failure after that age & mileage, but if it is the clutch, the price you've been quoted is absolutely ludicrous. I'd have thought you could buy the parts for under £150 & it can't be more than an hour's work to swap them over & bleed the system.

Edit: if it's a gearbox-out job, then it's not something that can be done in an hour.
 
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Stuart J said:
Anyone had a master cylinder failure. It appears the seals in ours have started breaking up , contaminated the fluid & taken out the slave as well

Cars out of warranty but only done just over 35000 miles.

Faced with a bill looking to be north of a grand I'm a tadge underwhelmed

Just want to see if this is a common fault

Also is it the same cylinder as the normal 500, if yes might be more info on that section of the forum

Thanks
Click to expand...

Stu, that seems incredibly expensive for two cylinders and some fluid as the labour time can't be that long, maybe two to three hours as a guesstimate. :confused:

I believe I read something about sediment in the clutch master cylinder posted by JRKitching but cannot remember the full context, might be worth a search. As you say, probably loads more info in the 500 section than here, but this thread will also be seen in that section so you should get some answers soon with a bit of luck.

<edit> beaten to it.
 
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Its clutch

Replacement of slave is gearbox out, with hourly labour rates the bill will rattle up, spoke to the technician & it sounded like a few hours box out, a few back in, the parts, £85 for the initial diagnosis + vat, scary how quickly it mounts up

Still pretty pxxxxd off
 
Stuart J said:
Still pretty pxxxxd off
Click to expand...

Understandably so. You have my condolences.

Folks don't buy new cars to have unscheduled four-figure maintenance bills in year 4. I wouldn't be pxxxxd off, I'd be b****y furious!

Stuart J said:
Replacement of slave is gearbox out
Click to expand...

:eek::eek::eek:!

I can understand that's going to rack up the price a lot. :( While they're down there, I'd suggest paying a few pounds extra & replacing the clutch friction plate. If you've been using the car when the hydraulics are past their best, you may also have put a bit of extra wear on the clutch.

On the 1.2, the slave is mounted on the outside of the bellhousing & AFAIK can be easily replaced.

Clutch hydraulic cylinders are subject to constant use and are almost certain to need replacing during the life of the car (just think how many more times you use the clutch than you use the brake). Whoever designed the transmission so that it requires the best part of a day's labour to change one gets my vote for this year's "Ministry of Cr*p Design" award. :mad: :bang::bang:
 
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I know there are very good odds that this would never happen to me, but it is at times like that that I am glad that I am handing the keys to my three year old car back this Friday ahead of getting a new one in September-ish.....
 
306maxi said:
A grand? What a joke!
Click to expand...

Sadly it's believable if it's a 'box out job at main dealer rates :(:mad::mad::mad:.

This is the sort of job you can save a fortune on if you've the skills, tools & facilities to do it yourself.

RobinPJ said:
I know there are very good odds that this would never happen to me, but it is at times like that that I am glad that I am handing the keys to my three year old car back this Friday ahead of getting a new one in September-ish.....
Click to expand...

I can easily understand that.

Sometimes it's more important to have a predictable monthly payment than the lowest possible cost if everything goes well.

Your car, being a dualogic, has a different set of parts, and is likely to be even more expensive if it should go wrong. A small chance perhaps, but one that many folks would not want to take.

The economics are different if you can service it yourself. This can probably be fixed for about £150 worth of parts & a day's work.
 
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jrkitching said:
Sadly it's believable if it's a 'box out job at main dealer rates :(:mad::mad::mad:.

This is the sort of job you can save a fortune on if you've the skills, tools & facilities to do it yourself.



I can easily understand that.

Sometimes it's more important to have a predictable monthly payment than the lowest possible cost if everything goes well.

Your car, being a dualogic, has a different set of parts, and is likely to be even more expensive if it should go wrong. A small chance perhaps, but one that many folks would not want to take.

The economics are different if you can service it yourself. This can probably be fixed for about £150 worth of parts & a day's work.
Click to expand...

Parts are 367.04 :eek:,

Something to be said for extended warranties, 2 years unlimited mileage on the Skoda was £450, at 90,000 miles ( 3.5 years ) they paid for a new Turbo, 450 well spent :D

I really thought with the low mileage this car does there was any point in considering it, hindsight is indeed a wonderful but very annoying thing
 
RobinPJ said:
I wonder if a Fiat three year new car warranty would cover it?
Click to expand...

The clutch centre plate, release bearing & cover assembly are specifically excluded, but the hydraulic actuating system would appear to be covered.

Stuart J said:
Something to be said for extended warranties.
Click to expand...

Something to be said for making cars out of decent parts.

I don't want a five year warranty, I want a car that'll run five years without falling apart.
 
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jrkitching said:
Clutch or brake?

Not many problems reported for the brake hydraulic system, but the clutch one on RHD cars is cheap rubbish. I've reported on this before and I'd say if you don't regularly change the clutch fluid, it's an odds on certainty to fail within the first five years.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear of a clutch hydraulic failure after that age & mileage, but if it is the clutch, the price you've been quoted is absolutely ludicrous. I'd have thought you could buy the parts for under £150 & it can't be more than an hour's work to swap them over & bleed the system.

Edit: if it's a gearbox-out job, then it's not something that can be done in an hour.
Click to expand...


Can confirm the rhd clutch one is indeed rubbish, my cylinder popped with less than 1000 miles on the clock...
 
jrkitching said:
Sadly it's believable if it's a 'box out job at main dealer rates :(:mad::mad::mad:.

This is the sort of job you can save a fortune on if you've the skills, tools & facilities to do it yourself.



I can easily understand that.

Sometimes it's more important to have a predictable monthly payment than the lowest possible cost if everything goes well.

Your car, being a dualogic, has a different set of parts, and is likely to be even more expensive if it should go wrong. A small chance perhaps, but one that many folks would not want to take.

The economics are different if you can service it yourself. This can probably be fixed for about £150 worth of parts & a day's work.
Click to expand...


You know what jrkirching, the dualogic box and its related workings is the thing that worries me most about the car in terms of long life! Everything else seems easy enough to fix. I wonder how long mine will last ..... = (
 
To continue

Another question


My wife collected the car last night & the garage relieved her of £1185 for the privilege, add to that 2 days car rental before they could find a loner so not good

I haven't driven it as she was away last night but apparently its shuddering when you pull away in first & is not smooth when you engage second. The technician told her when she picked the car up it would take a few days to settle in but surely changing the master & slave cylinder wont cause clutch shudder ? I haven't seen the bill yet but parts were £367. Could they have changed parts on the clutch as well ? Anyone any knowledge they would care to share.

There's also a whooshing noise as she describes it coming from under the car so I'm guessing something like an undertray is not fitted correctly,

Chatted to the garage this morning & they have asked her to carry on with it for a few days so we will see


Thanks all for your input thus far
 
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Stuart J said:
To continue

Another question


My wife collected the car last night & the garage relieved her of £1185 for the privilege, add to that 2 days car rental before they could find a loner so not good

I haven't driven it as she was away last night but apparently its shuddering when you pull away in first & is not smooth when you engage second. The technician told her when she picked the car up it would take a few days to settle in but surely changing the master & slave cylinder wont cause clutch shudder ? I haven't seen the bill yet but parts were £367. Could they have changed parts on the clutch as well ? Anyone any knowledge they would care to share.

There's also a whooshing noise as she describes it coming from under the car so I'm guessing something like an undertray is not fitted correctly,

Chatted to the garage this morning & they have asked her to carry on with it for a few days so we will see


Thanks all for your input thus far
Click to expand...

That much and no loaner? Thats really adding salt to the wounds. 700 gbp labor?? Why didnt you go indie? Its your money but that much waste on such a cheap car sounds crazy to me!
 
Stuart J said:
but apparently its shuddering when you pull away in first & is not smooth when you engage second. The technician told her when she picked the car up it would take a few days to settle in but surely changing the master & slave cylinder wont cause clutch shudder ?
Click to expand...

Did they change the clutch centre plate? It's possible it's not been refitted squarely, or it's been contaminated with grease or brake fluid. Also, if the system hasn't been bled properly, air in the hydraulic lines could cause this.

This is definitely not normal and if it hasn't settled down by the weekend I'd be taking it back with steam coming out of my ears.
 
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Stu, I am more inclined to think about loose engine mounting or similar as replacing just the hydraulics shouldn't cause juddering, just a spongy pedal if not bled properly. I can't see that they would replace just the centre plate as for any warranty on parts to be valid you would need the pressure plate and release bearing included.

If they (for whatever reason) did remove the clutch assembly the oil or grease on the friction material could cause this but if the clutch assembly was not aligned on re-assembly and the friction plate was off centre that would then be resolved as soon as the clutch was depressed for the first time.

So hard to make a diagnosis without knowing all the facts. Let's hope you get the whole story soon.
 
Plot thickens

Drove it for a few miles last night, clutch shudders as it engages in first & sometimes second but wont do it for reverse ??

Whooshing noise is only apparent when you pull away as the clutch is engaging, even under minimal load, car wont do it if you rev it whilst stationary out of gear. We have a long private drive with fences both sides & with the windows open its incredibly loud. Its definitely clutch ( or associated bits) related
We will continue to use it as instructed by the garage for a couple of days but Im convinced Mr Angry will be taking it back & steam will be emitting from my ears
 
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