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Old 07-08-2013   #16
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Re: Master cylinder failure

To continue

Another question


My wife collected the car last night & the garage relieved her of 1185 for the privilege, add to that 2 days car rental before they could find a loner so not good

I haven't driven it as she was away last night but apparently its shuddering when you pull away in first & is not smooth when you engage second. The technician told her when she picked the car up it would take a few days to settle in but surely changing the master & slave cylinder wont cause clutch shudder ? I haven't seen the bill yet but parts were 367. Could they have changed parts on the clutch as well ? Anyone any knowledge they would care to share.

There's also a whooshing noise as she describes it coming from under the car so I'm guessing something like an undertray is not fitted correctly,

Chatted to the garage this morning & they have asked her to carry on with it for a few days so we will see


Thanks all for your input thus far
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Last edited by Stuart J; 07-08-2013 at 08:42.
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Old 07-08-2013   #17
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Re: Master cylinder failure

Quote Originally Posted by Stuart J View Post
To continue

Another question


My wife collected the car last night & the garage relieved her of 1185 for the privilege, add to that 2 days car rental before they could find a loner so not good

I haven't driven it as she was away last night but apparently its shuddering when you pull away in first & is not smooth when you engage second. The technician told her when she picked the car up it would take a few days to settle in but surely changing the master & slave cylinder wont cause clutch shudder ? I haven't seen the bill yet but parts were 367. Could they have changed parts on the clutch as well ? Anyone any knowledge they would care to share.

There's also a whooshing noise as she describes it coming from under the car so I'm guessing something like an undertray is not fitted correctly,

Chatted to the garage this morning & they have asked her to carry on with it for a few days so we will see


Thanks all for your input thus far
That much and no loaner? Thats really adding salt to the wounds. 700 gbp labor?? Why didnt you go indie? Its your money but that much waste on such a cheap car sounds crazy to me!
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Old 07-08-2013   #18
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Re: Master cylinder failure

Quote Originally Posted by Stuart J View Post
but apparently its shuddering when you pull away in first & is not smooth when you engage second. The technician told her when she picked the car up it would take a few days to settle in but surely changing the master & slave cylinder wont cause clutch shudder ?
Did they change the clutch centre plate? It's possible it's not been refitted squarely, or it's been contaminated with grease or brake fluid. Also, if the system hasn't been bled properly, air in the hydraulic lines could cause this.

This is definitely not normal and if it hasn't settled down by the weekend I'd be taking it back with steam coming out of my ears.
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Last edited by jrkitching; 07-08-2013 at 09:38.
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Old 07-08-2013   #19
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Re: Master cylinder failure

Stu, I am more inclined to think about loose engine mounting or similar as replacing just the hydraulics shouldn't cause juddering, just a spongy pedal if not bled properly. I can't see that they would replace just the centre plate as for any warranty on parts to be valid you would need the pressure plate and release bearing included.

If they (for whatever reason) did remove the clutch assembly the oil or grease on the friction material could cause this but if the clutch assembly was not aligned on re-assembly and the friction plate was off centre that would then be resolved as soon as the clutch was depressed for the first time.

So hard to make a diagnosis without knowing all the facts. Let's hope you get the whole story soon.
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Old 08-08-2013   #20
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Re: Master cylinder failure

Plot thickens

Drove it for a few miles last night, clutch shudders as it engages in first & sometimes second but wont do it for reverse ??

Whooshing noise is only apparent when you pull away as the clutch is engaging, even under minimal load, car wont do it if you rev it whilst stationary out of gear. We have a long private drive with fences both sides & with the windows open its incredibly loud. Its definitely clutch ( or associated bits) related
We will continue to use it as instructed by the garage for a couple of days but Im convinced Mr Angry will be taking it back & steam will be emitting from my ears
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Old 08-08-2013   #21
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Re: Master cylinder failure

Quote Originally Posted by Stuart J View Post
Plot thickens

Drove it for a few miles last night, clutch shudders as it engages in first & sometimes second but wont do it for reverse ??

Whooshing noise is only apparent when you pull away as the clutch is engaging, even under minimal load, car wont do it if you rev it whilst stationary out of gear. We have a long private drive with fences both sides & with the windows open its incredibly loud. Its definitely clutch ( or associated bits) related
We will continue to use it as instructed by the garage for a couple of days but Im convinced Mr Angry will be taking it back & steam will be emitting from my ears
I'd take it back now.
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Old 08-08-2013   #22
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Re: Master cylinder failure

I 100% agree with Maxi; if it is possible for you to do so anyway.

There is obviously something not right, and I don't think it is a good plan using it for a few more days - it might well be that driving the car makes it worse and ends up causing more damage.

Might be a good plan to film the noise as you go up and down your drive so that you have some actual proof.

Good luck with it though.
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Old 08-08-2013   #23
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Re: Master cylinder failure

Daft question, does the car appear to be boosting properly?
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Old 11-08-2013   #24
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Re: Master cylinder failure

The master cylinder on mine failed at about 18000 miles but it was still under warranty at the time. Was rather surprised when it happened at such low mileage. It hasn't given any trouble since though.

The dealer had the car for three days to get it sorted out and given how much other repairs have cost since it went out of warranty I would say that 1000 is quite feasible and possibly even a bit cheap.
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Old 11-08-2013   #25
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Re: Master cylinder failure

Quote Originally Posted by jimbro1000 View Post
...and given how much other repairs have cost since it went out of warranty I would say that 1000 is quite feasible and possibly even a bit cheap.
My total budget for repairs (excluding routine servicing & tyres) is 1000 for the first 10 yrs/ 100000 miles. Brakes, suspension & exhaust will also have to come out of this.

If the 500 doesn't make it inside this figure, it will be the first new car I have ever owned not to do so.
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Old 11-08-2013   #26
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Re: Master cylinder failure

Third year service on mine plus MOT, new brake pads and a set of new tyres was 1200 alone. Front suspension failed completely last year (thanks to pot holes, speed bumps, etc) resulting in new springs, dampers and mountings - another 1000 worth. Two hit and runs - another 500 (just the rear bumper).

The car is now 4 1/2 years old with just under 31000 miles on the clock and I think it has cost me about 4500 in servicing, tyres and repairs. Of that about 2500 is servicing and 1000 is tyres, that leaves 1000 in repairs. Compared with my Marea this is nothing, same for my Integra. I think I spent 6000 on my TVR in two years in repairs, tyres and servicing at least.
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Old 11-08-2013   #27
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Re: Master cylinder failure

Quote Originally Posted by jimbro1000 View Post
Third year service on mine plus MOT, new brake pads and a set of new tyres was 1200 alone. Front suspension failed completely last year (thanks to pot holes, speed bumps, etc) resulting in new springs, dampers and mountings - another 1000 worth. Two hit and runs - another 500 (just the rear bumper).

The car is now 4 1/2 years old with just under 31000 miles on the clock and I think it has cost me about 4500 in servicing, tyres and repairs. Of that about 2500 is servicing and 1000 is tyres, that leaves 1000 in repairs. Compared with my Marea this is nothing, same for my Integra. I think I spent 6000 on my TVR in two years in repairs, tyres and servicing at least.
You must have walked under a hell of a lot of ladders to have had so much bad luck. Workshop owner must rub his hands in glee when he sees you coming.
No offence intended but these figures are horrific. I buy my cars new and keep for three or four years, never spend a penny on most of them other than servicing costs at about 150 maximum per service, and generally less.
I am now lost for words as I really cannot get my head round your figures.
Or as Terry Wogan would say. Is it me?
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Last edited by wellfan; 11-08-2013 at 19:12.
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Old 11-08-2013   #28
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Re: Master cylinder failure

Trying to think how much our 1.2 has cost over 4 years and 56k miles.

250 for a set of winter tyres.
40 for front pads and discs

120 for the first service
250 for the second including tappets and brake fluid. Tbh a bit of a rip off, but others have paid much more!!!!!
130 for the third service
50 in parts for the 4th service as I did it myself.
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Old 11-08-2013   #29
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Re: Master cylinder failure

Quote Originally Posted by 306maxi View Post
Trying to think how much our 1.2 has cost over 4 years and 56k miles.

250 for a set of winter tyres.
40 for front pads and discs

120 for the first service
250 for the second including tappets and brake fluid. Tbh a bit of a rip off, but others have paid much more!!!!!
130 for the third service
50 in parts for the 4th service as I did it myself.

In three years and 72,000 km's, mine cost

237 Euros first service (i was stupid i got it serviced main dealer)
280 Euros 4 new Mitch Pilot tires
160 Euros 2nd service
50 Euros Front Pads
40 Euros Rear Pads
Lets say 40 Euros on new lights.
And about 80 Euros on oil topups = )

Battery and Dualogic Gearbox seal replaced under warranty for free.

So about 900 Euros so far!
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Last edited by ahmett; 11-08-2013 at 19:50.
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Old 12-08-2013   #30
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Re: Master cylinder failure

Well you made me sit down and work it out a bit more thoroughly and I was indeed off - servicing over the four years was only 2100 but that includes a lot of new brake pads as the rear calipers keep getting stuck on.

The rear tyres have been changed once but the fronts are on the third set. That's 8 tyres at an average of 98 each. So call it a round 800 for sake of quick sums. So that's 400 off my original guess (for some stupid reason I had it down as 10 tyres).

The repairs though were actually more expensive as I'd forgotten the snapped brake pedal, completely failed rear door switch and the drivers door handle that snapped off plus a few other niggling bits and pieces. Thankfully the insurance covered the worst one that resulted in a new headlining, door seal and trim plus a repair to the roof panel.

I think people need to stop comparing the costs of their little 1.2's here as well. If I'd wanted a cheapo I'd have bought one but a 1.2 500 is not an Abarth 500 and if nothing else it shows in the price of the tyres alone. I've driven the 1.2 (and 1.4) and frankly they were awful and very nearly put me off buying the Abarth if only for the stupid variable steering assistance. At that point I'd promised myself I'd never buy another Fiat.
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