My A500 is coming slowly to 1500km (~940 miles). Do you usually do first oil change at his time? I did it in my previous 1.2 500 at about 1875 miles.

I think it may be essential in order to remove any residues left in assembly process + my A500 was produced in March 2012 (I bought it new in February 2013). This means that she has been standing at Abarth dealer without engine running almost a year - oil degradation may be significant.

I appreciate hearing your thoughts about oil change in new engine.

Personally, I'd wait a little longer (around 3 to 4000 miles), as you do actually want a controlled wear process of the rings and bores to ensure a good seal.

By this mileage, you should be really have been working the engine quite hard, to get the ring>bore pressures up, whilst not putting too much load on for too long a time - pushing the engine in a higher gear (4th or 5th) for a few seconds, followed by periods of coasting along to subject the rings to a good vacuum, drawing oil up to cool them.

Gregi said:

My A500 is coming slowly to 1500km (~940 miles). Do you usually do first oil change at his time? I did it in my previous 1.2 500 at about 1875 miles.

I appreciate hearing your thoughts about oil change in new engine.

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I'm in favour of an early initial oil change to get rid of any bits of detritus left over from initial assembly & the early running in period. I'd suggest either doing it yourself, or taking an OEM filter + the correct specification oil to an independent garage, & keeping quiet as far as FIAT are concerned.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it was essential, otherwise FIAT would mandate it in the service schedule. That said, FIAT are only interested in the engine surviving the warranty period & if you plan on keeping the car for more than three years, I'd say an early oil change is a sound investment in the car's future.

Bgunn's advice on running in is sound & there are some who would consider draining out the factory oil after delivery and changing to a straight mineral oil for the first 3000 miles to ensure the rings bed in properly.

Gregi said:

This means that she has been standing at Abarth dealer without engine running almost a year - oil degradation may be significant.

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I'd be more concerned about battery degradation in those circumstances.

Gregi said:

My A500 is coming slowly to 1500km (~940 miles). Do you usually do first oil change at his time? I did it in my previous 1.2 500 at about 1875 miles.

I think it may be essential in order to remove any residues left in assembly process + my A500 was produced in March 2012 (I bought it new in February 2013). This means that she has been standing at Abarth dealer without engine running almost a year - oil degradation may be significant.

I appreciate hearing your thoughts about oil change in new engine.

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I would be of the same mindset as JR about an early initial change particularly when less than 6K miles has been done in one 1 year. Hopefully Tony or someone will correct me on this but I remember reading somewhere that the oil in new A500 that come from the factory is 5W40 as opposed to the warranty compliant 10W50. I would be of 2 minds as to which one I would use. Given that the summer is coming in I'd probably get the correct spec 10W50 and the oil filer directly of Fiat and get a VAT registered garage to change it. Unless you can get the Fiat garage (doesn't need to be an Abarth garage) to reduce their labour charge by getting them to price match.

loveshandbags said:

and get a VAT registered garage to change it

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Additional work not specified by the service schedule can be done by anybody if genuine OEM parts are used. From the warranty perspective, being pragmatic, who's to know? .

I change mine every 9k although first change was at 6k because I bought pre reg and year was up at 6k miles.
I don't think modern motors will have much 'residue' floating around so a change at 6k would be spot on for a pampered engine.

jrkitching said:

Additional work not specified by the service schedule can be done by anybody if genuine OEM parts are used. From the warranty perspective, being pragmatic, who's to know? .

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Unlikely Scenario.
A500 comes from the factory with 5W40 (still needs to be confirmed). 'OP' changes the oil to 10W50 as per the manual. Something goes wrong and the oil is analysed. Abarth will be wondering how did the 10W50 get in there since it has not had an official service yet.

If one was coming into the winter I'd put in 5W40 but if the new A500 gets a good workout and gets hot the 10W50 will be better. Plus it's the only one thats meet the warranty requirement for both the A500, A595 & A500SS.

Hence the recommendation of doing it officially and using 10W50 but then I'm probably just be pedantic.

Just put the same oil in as OE uses during the warranty period?

I think you'll find many franchised dealerships don't use the official oil anyway, they'll use whatever they buy in bulk; this is particularly common on multi franchise dealerships. You'll also find that oil doesn't have a 'DNA' and it's very difficult to actually determine exactly what it might be unless you have the bottle in front of you, especially if it's been used for some time, or in extremis.

bgunn said:

Just put the same oil in as OE uses during the warranty period?

I think you'll find many franchised dealerships don't use the official oil anyway, they'll use whatever they buy in bulk; this is particularly common on multi franchise dealerships. You'll also find that oil doesn't have a 'DNA' and it's very difficult to actually determine exactly what it might be unless you have the bottle in fNotront of you, especially if it's been used for some time, or in extremis.

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Yeah good one bgunn my Fiat main dealer used Agip 5w40 which was not C3 rated during my oil change, and funnily enough my indie used exactly the same oil.
I found some cheap formula ford 5w-40 C3 so use that for my top up, I think it is produced by BP.
Not using C3 oil hasn't exactly blown up my engine and to be honest I am sure the Fire 1.4 Fiat 16v engine has been around long before the C3 designation ever existed.

ahmett said:

Yeah good one bgunn my Fiat main dealer used Agip 5w40 which was not C3 rated during my oil change, and funnily enough my indie used exactly the same oil.
I found some cheap formula ford 5w-40 C3 so use that for my top up, I think it is produced by BP.
Not using C3 oil hasn't exactly blown up my engine and to be honest I am sure the Fire 1.4 Fiat 16v engine has been around long before the C3 designation ever existed.

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Good point Ahmett about the length of time that the engine has been around although the C3 spec is for the CAT and not for the engine.
It raises the point about oldschool verus newschool thinking and given the age of the A500 engine I would lean towards this recommendation.
When I have gone there for information I've come out more confused that anything else but here's a recent thread that supports the other camp.
It's probable that Manufacturers are putting in some additives to help break in of new engines but I doubt that Fiat are doing it. If I have the TA engine I might opt for Bgunns approach but with the A500 engine...
There's a case for thinner rather than thicker and I've been happy with the thinner 5W40 in the 155TB but then there's more room in the engine bay. Can't see any Abarth garage using oil from a big drum and would imagine that the only oil they would use is the 10W50 in the fancy tin.

loveshandbags said:

If I have the TA engine I might opt for Bgunns approach but with the A500 engine...

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You talk about the TJet like it's something mythical and special. It's not an engine known to have oiling issues (like a lot of VAG ones, for example).

Just use the oil that suits your climate and needs and meets the specifications given and it'll be fine.

bgunn said:

You talk about the TJet like it's something mythical and special. It's not an engine known to have oiling issues (like a lot of VAG ones, for example).

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I think you may have misread my last post. The 1.4 16V engine uses a thick oil relative to what's been used nowadays so it is not build to tight tolerances that's characteristic of newer engines using 0w20 or similar. So oldschool thinking was being applied hence the reference link. On the 'mythical and special' the T-jet IMHO is quite a special engine but I hadn't thought of the mythical.

bgunn said:

Just use the oil that suits your climate and needs and meets the specifications given and it'll be fine.

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There's only one oil in the current A500 manual and that's 10W50 ACEA C3. If you use a 5w40 for a colder climate it's a warranty breech.

loveshandbags said:

I think you may have misread my last post. The 1.4 16V engine uses a thick oil relative to what's been used nowadays so it is not build to tight tolerances that's characteristic of newer engines using 0w20 or similar. So oldschool thinking was being applied hence the reference link. On the 'mythical and special' the T-jet IMHO is quite a special engine but I hadn't thought of the mythical.

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Not sure about your humble opinion, but the engine is not particularly special, or amazingly demanding on its oiling requirements. Oh, and one reason new engines use oils such as 5w30 is not because of them being to wonderfully tight tolerances, it's because the marketeers have got hold of all reasonable sense and car manufacturers proudly say that cars can now have super extended service intervals (the Germans are good at this). Multigrade oils when they go out of grade tend to go 'thick' (more viscous)...

loveshandbags said:

There's only one oil in the current A500 manual and that's 10W50 ACEA C3. If you use a 5w40 for a colder climate it's a warranty breech.

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So remind me, what have we been wittering on about? Put that in it, and what on earth is FIAT going to say if the engine fails? (which it probably won't).

bgunn said:

Not sure about your humble opinion, but the engine is not particularly special, or amazingly demanding on its oiling requirements.

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Abarth thought differently. Initially the 5w40 spec was sufficient for the standard A500 but around 2 years ago they decided that all variants of the A500 would use the 10W50. They also reduced the service interval from 12K to 9K for the A500 and 9K to 6K for the A500SS. So relative to other manufacturers the oil service interval is demanding. If you were to lift the bonnet of a A500 one can see how it has been shoehorned in. Also a lot of A500s were getting the tuning box treatment and running the VL37 spec turbo at 1.2+bar - it was only designed for 135bhp.

bgunn said:

Oh, and one reason new engines use oils such as 5w30 is not because of them being to wonderfully tight tolerances, it's because the marketeers have got hold of all reasonable sense and car manufacturers proudly say that cars can now have super extended service intervals (the Germans are good at this). Multigrade oils when they go out of grade tend to go 'thick' (more viscous)...

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The North American version of the F500 uses 5w30 and the A500 uses 5w40. The US block is built to tighter tolerances than the European one. Given the multi-air head design 5w40 is the thickest that it can go without interfering with the hydraulics. The demand for the thinner oils came from the customer in the US and not from the manufacturer. 5w40 isn't as readily available in the US since 5w40 ACEA C3 is often labelled as being for Diesel engines. US prefer Petrol to Diesel in their everyday cars. In the case of the German cars the demand for thinner oils is to do with emissions which they have been excelling at but I would guess at the price of long engine life.

If 5W40 is the factory fill oil for the A500 engine there is probably a reason for it. Personally if I was the OP I would clarify it before deciding and agree it with the service manager of the Abarth dealership that you will be dealing with.

bgunn said:

So remind me, what have we been wittering on about? Put that in it, and what on earth is FIAT going to say if the engine fails? (which it probably won't).

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OP was looking for inputs on if he should change his oil at the 1K mark. Since a lot of the experts on bobstheoilguy can't agree on what's best I can't understand where you coming from.

We'll agree to disagree. As you seem to know best, having worked on, and dismantled many, many engines

bgunn said:

We'll agree to disagree. As you seem to know best, having worked on, and dismantled many, many engines

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I changed my oil first time at 18k and it didn't blow up. All I did was check the levels. I want the newbies on this forum and less mechanical people to know that the people discussing these issues are looking for perfect over the top servicing much more stringent then what 90% of people do or the manufacturers ask for. So if you do even 50% of what these guys do, your car will be well looked after!

ahmett said:

I changed my oil first time at 18k and it didn't blow up. All I did was check the levels. I want the newbies on this forum and less mechanical people to know that the people discussing these issues are looking for perfect over the top servicing much more stringent then what 90% of people do or the manufacturers ask for. So if you do even 50% of what these guys do, your car will be well looked after!

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That's a fair point.

What loveshandbags doesn't seem to understand is that the standard manufacturers testing regime is incredibly harsh and will way exceed what almost any owner will put their car through to provide a good margin of over engineering (not too much, of course, as it'll last too long).

What I mean by the oiling requirements not being particularly demanding is that unlike many VAG cars (1.8T, the PD diesel amongst others), if you give it standard oil, and change it regularly it'll be fine. There haven't been rafts of Tjet engines exploding, have there?

bgunn said:

That's a fair point.

What loveshandbags doesn't seem to understand is that the standard manufacturers testing regime is incredibly harsh and will way exceed what almost any owner will put their car through to provide a good margin of over engineering (not too much, of course, as it'll last too long).

What I mean by the oiling requirements not being particularly demanding is that unlike many VAG cars (1.8T, the PD diesel amongst others), if you give it standard oil, and change it regularly it'll be fine. There haven't been rafts of Tjet engines exploding, have there?

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Bgunn you are right, to be honest, my mom's VW Polo 1.4's engine blew due to oil starvation and what really annoyed me is that the yellow oil light was not working without me knowing so when I drove it for the first time in months the red oil light came on and, well, that's that!
So now my mom has a VW Golf 1.4 TSI 160 DSG that is leased, and now I really don't care what happens to it as we don't own it and its the responsibility of AVIS to look after it and maintain it. I think for her (someone who just drives cars and all they need to do for them is put petrol in it) its the best solution.

I think people are starting to get confused with all this servicing the more complicated the cars get. Cars just get more and more complicated, so now we have many more issues with things that are a part of the modern car such as electronics
Thankfully, the Fiat 500 is a rather simple car and you do not really need to service it in a main dealer, but even then people get confused especially with the amount of abuse they are getting at the hands of main dealers who charge them so much.
The same cannot be said for BMW's latest cars which need a 500 page instruction manual just to understand the central computer!

bgunn said:

We'll agree to disagree. As you seem to know best, having worked on, and dismantled many, many engines

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I haven't build any engines. The most I've ever done is to take the head off a Fiat 850 get it skimmed and then put it back on.

bgunn said:

What loveshandbags doesn't seem to understand is that the standard manufacturers testing regime is incredibly harsh and will way exceed what almost any owner will put their car through to provide a good margin of over engineering (not too much, of course, as it'll last too long).

What I mean by the oiling requirements not being particularly demanding is that unlike many VAG cars (1.8T, the PD diesel amongst others), if you give it standard oil, and change it regularly it'll be fine. There haven't been rafts of Tjet engines exploding, have there?

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The revised service schedule for the A500 is to keep the warranty. Of the secondhand A500s that I've driven most of them seemed to have lived in the fast lane. Key benefit of frequently changing the oil in the A500 is to prolong the life of the turbo. There comes a breakeven point particularly given the price of the 10W50 Abarth oil. For some pampered A500SS / 595 6K oil service intervals does seem a little excessive.

loveshandbags said:

For some pampered A500SS / 595 6K oil service intervals does seem a little excessive.

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Michael, funnily enough, there is no mention of the 595 needing a 6K oil and filter change in the handbook. We all know that the 595 and esseesse should have identical servicing requirements but what about the less informed 595 owner?

Going by the book the 595 variants have the same servicing intervals as the std 135 NP A500. Fiat really need to start adding an addendum to their documentation because even my dealer, despite knowing all the technical facts, has said that it is a grey area, and we know there are dealers who are not switched on who would rely purely on the info as presented.