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Old 19-07-2011   #1
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Tyre Time Again

Looks like I'm going to need a new pair of tyres on my A500 again so I'd just to hear what everyone is running and what they think of them.

The last pair fitted on mine were Yokohama Parada Spec-2's, excellent grip in the dry, above average in the wet (marginally down on the Pirellis) but the wear rate isn't quite as good (although that might be the fact they grip better and get driven a bit harder as a result).

The price on Pirellis is getting stupid at around the £110 per tyre mark while the Yoko's are just a few pennies shy of £26 a corner cheaper and that's just on my first round of investigation.
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Old 19-07-2011   #2
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Re: Tyre Time Again

I heard the the Michelins that they fitted to the SS were excellent all round, good grip in wet and dry conditions and excellent longevity.

Personally I am running 16" wheels and I find the Pirellis to be good all rounders and quieter than the Bridgestones I had on my other car.
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Old 19-07-2011   #3
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Re: Tyre Time Again

Ive always run Toyos on other cars & they semed to give a good value / grip balance, havent tried them on her ladyships Abarth yet though but would they be worth considering
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Old 19-07-2011   #4
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Re: Tyre Time Again

I'd take a look at Michelin Pilot Sport 3's. Meant to be a great tyre
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Old 19-07-2011   #5
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Re: Tyre Time Again

Quote Originally Posted by jimbro1000 View Post
Looks like I'm going to need a new pair of tyres on my A500 again so I'd just to hear what everyone is running and what they think of them.

The last pair fitted on mine were Yokohama Parada Spec-2's, excellent grip in the dry, above average in the wet (marginally down on the Pirellis) but the wear rate isn't quite as good (although that might be the fact they grip better and get driven a bit harder as a result).

The price on Pirellis is getting stupid at around the £110 per tyre mark while the Yoko's are just a few pennies shy of £26 a corner cheaper and that's just on my first round of investigation.

I would agree with grimwau's posting re the Michelin Exaltos which I thought were amazing on the esseesse that I test drove. The Pirelli PZEROs on the standard A500 were dissappointing and once there was a hint of wet I had to engage the TTC. I have Continental Premium Contact 2 on a 500 1.4 - very impressive tyre on a 16 inch and have made the ride comfortable. I like the Contis with the wet weather performance and quiet running (although they have higher rolling resistance) - not to sure I would go for them on your 17x7J but they would be more preferable to the Pirellis price depending.

Price wise it is hard to beat the Yokohama Parada spec 2 as an excellent dry summer tyre (£77). The Toyo in T1R (£83) are raved about (as per Stuart's posting - great price for the performance) but only come in a 205x45x17 size - this is run by G-TEchs mega A500 - which may not suit a standard A500.

On the Yokohama Parada spec 2 some have stepped up to a 215x40x17 and think they're brillant claiming that its worth the bit of extra drag for the late braking and cornering performance - optimised for dry weather. I'd imagine you would have to be running a TMC'd + A500 to justify this oversize. The Yohos are deemed to be a mid-Range tyre and would not be premium brand.

I 'ran' Michelin Pilots on a RS Turbo and I was mega impressed with them at the time - they were 'leading edge' and in a different league to the competition. The fact that the new esseesse kit comes with the Michelin Exalto as opposed to Pirelli indicates that the former are a much better tyre. The Michelin Exalto are pricey at £140 compared with some getting the Pirelli PZERO for £88 (which is good value as a performance tyre).

If you could run 2 sets of tyres - some do - and switch the tyres for the winter for a cost of £30 - and then back again - that might be an option. 3 years is generally the shelf life of tyres so if you doing 10K a year it might be an option so both sets are worn out. But you would have to be in an area of the UK that warrants winter tyres to justify this.

It will come down to price. If you could buy the Toyo T1R in the right size of 205x40x17 for around £80 it would make the choice easy.

Since our 'wet weather' will be back again in another 2 months I would be tempted to try out a set of Vredestien which a mate had on a rear wheel drive 132 2L Twin cam- it saved our 'bacon'. Not too sure if Vredestien Ultrac Cento's will fit.

There are some good links in a recent thread on the 500 forum. You may have to drill down to get info on 17s.

It will be interesting to see what you'll end up with.
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Old 19-07-2011   #6
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Re: Tyre Time Again

The Pilot Exalto PE2's have been superceded by the Pilot Sport 3's which are apparently quite a bit better.

Personally I'd go for the Michelin's and if they're on offer @ Costco when the 500 needs new shoes I think I'll go for them, otherwise I'll go for Bridgestones which are fantastic in the dry, good in the wet and poor when it's cold and wet which is went I put winter tyres on.
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Old 19-07-2011   #7
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Re: Tyre Time Again

Anything over £100 per tyre is out of the question which dispenses with the Pirellis, Bridgestones, Michelins, etc. Most are hugely more expensive than the original Pirellis and in practical terms don't offer that much more for the money.

I've been through any number of different makes and models over the years in the name of keeping my TVRs pointing in the right direction or for racing in production spec classes. I used to favour the Toyos but since they scrapped the T1-S I haven't gone near them after my first encounter with the T1-R which was a massive disappointment.

The big problem is that almost any tyre is going to be an improvement over a well worn tyre so everything feels good initially - it is what they feel like 6000 miles down the line that counts and I'm still torn between the Pirellis and the Yoko's on that basis. The Pirellis are quieter and offer similarish grip and if anything they are more forgiving, with the Yoko's you have to be smooth but the ultimate grip is higher. The Pirellis you can throw the car around and it doesn't complain and I suspect that they are marginally harder wearing too.

I think the answer will be to go with what I know since all of the suggestions are for (in my opinion) over priced options. The Yoko's are consistently considered to be a premium tyre but not in the same class when it comes to price and that is important right now. Having taken a wage cut that would allow me to buy a new A500 every year if I got it back I really have to be tight if I want to keep the car and I really do want to keep the car!
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Old 19-07-2011   #8
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Re: Tyre Time Again

Quote Originally Posted by jimbro1000 View Post
Anything over £100 per tyre is out of the question which dispenses with the Pirellis, Bridgestones, Michelins, etc. Most are hugely more expensive than the original Pirellis and in practical terms don't offer that much more for the money.

I've been through any number of different makes and models over the years in the name of keeping my TVRs pointing in the right direction or for racing in production spec classes. I used to favour the Toyos but since they scrapped the T1-S I haven't gone near them after my first encounter with the T1-R which was a massive disappointment.

The big problem is that almost any tyre is going to be an improvement over a well worn tyre so everything feels good initially - it is what they feel like 6000 miles down the line that counts and I'm still torn between the Pirellis and the Yoko's on that basis. The Pirellis are quieter and offer similarish grip and if anything they are more forgiving, with the Yoko's you have to be smooth but the ultimate grip is higher. The Pirellis you can throw the car around and it doesn't complain and I suspect that they are marginally harder wearing too.

I think the answer will be to go with what I know since all of the suggestions are for (in my opinion) over priced options. The Yoko's are consistently considered to be a premium tyre but not in the same class when it comes to price and that is important right now. Having taken a wage cut that would allow me to buy a new A500 every year if I got it back I really have to be tight if I want to keep the car and I really do want to keep the car!
I think sadly in the sub £100 range the Yoko's and Pirelli's are probably it. Looking on Camskill I'm shocked to find that you can get 205/40 R17's for £38.50. They must be an awful pile of dog****!

You make an EXCELLENT point (I say excellent because I always say the same thing ) that initially just about any tyre will feel better than something which is on its wear markers. It's so true, how often do you see someone rubbishing a premium brand tyre because their new Chinese made tyres are better in the wet. Of course newer tyres will be better in the wet!!!! As you say it's how the tyres are when they're 50% worn or 90% worn that really matters.
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Old 20-07-2011   #9
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Re: Tyre Time Again

Quote Originally Posted by jimbro1000 View Post
Anything over £100 per tyre is out of the question which dispenses with the Pirellis, Bridgestones, Michelins, etc. Most are hugely more expensive than the original Pirellis and in practical terms don't offer that much more for the money.

I've been through any number of different makes and models over the years in the name of keeping my TVRs pointing in the right direction or for racing in production spec classes. I used to favour the Toyos but since they scrapped the T1-S I haven't gone near them after my first encounter with the T1-R which was a massive disappointment.

The big problem is that almost any tyre is going to be an improvement over a well worn tyre so everything feels good initially - it is what they feel like 6000 miles down the line that counts and I'm still torn between the Pirellis and the Yoko's on that basis. The Pirellis are quieter and offer similarish grip and if anything they are more forgiving, with the Yoko's you have to be smooth but the ultimate grip is higher. The Pirellis you can throw the car around and it doesn't complain and I suspect that they are marginally harder wearing too.

I think the answer will be to go with what I know since all of the suggestions are for (in my opinion) over priced options. The Yoko's are consistently considered to be a premium tyre but not in the same class when it comes to price and that is important right now. Having taken a wage cut that would allow me to buy a new A500 every year if I got it back I really have to be tight if I want to keep the car and I really do want to keep the car!

Different times now where every £ counts but looking at the camskill site this evening I was pleasantly surprised to see that some of the prices have been reduced with 'premium' tyres under £120 and the Toyo T1R at the right size of 205x40x17 for £60. Yokos at £67, Pirelli P0 £90.

I haven't driven the Pirelli, T1R and Yohos back to back so I cann't comment on the differences but for me the Pirelli was a dissapointment compared to a Continental (both on 16s in different sizes - 323i M & 500) and a Michelin Exalto (supposed to last a long time).

Here is the review posted by Caravadossi on the 500 thread. It covers the 205 type tyre - some interesting reading. Wet weather braking, etc for me is a priority but I can understand that you want a better all round performance tyre. Some are of the opinion that a Yoko is not a premium tyre but IMHO it is a value 'dry weather' tyre. If I was now looking for a budget wet performance orientated tyre I know what I would go for. But I can totally relate to 'the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know'.
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Old 20-07-2011   #10
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Re: Tyre Time Again

Just found this on eBay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pirelli-P-...item35b3bb1e9b

4 Pirelli's with delivery mileage from an Abarth 500 for £300 but they're a bit of a drive from you.

Then there's some Parada's which are even cheaper and include delivery.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/205-40-17-...item415b6cdf72
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Old 20-07-2011   #11
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Re: Tyre Time Again

now kicking myself.... why didn't I think to look on ebay for tyres.... off to do some investigation
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Re: Tyre Time Again

Quote Originally Posted by jimbro1000 View Post
now kicking myself.... why didn't I think to look on ebay for tyres.... off to do some investigation
You might even get a whole Abarth kit from an esseesse upgrade for £500 and then you could sell off your 'old bits' afterwards. New discs & pads, new wheels, new tyres, etc. If you got £200 for your old stuff it has only cost £300.
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Old 20-07-2011   #13
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Re: Tyre Time Again

Hankook Ventus EVO is current flavour of month with Clio RS owners dismayed at the discontinuation of the Michelin PE2 with the PS3 (replaces PS2 as well) which is not objectively felt to be as good.

The excellent German magazine Auto Bild have just published their 2011 max performance summer tyre test covering 10 tyres. Auto Bild decided to use the the popular 225/40 r18 tyre size, fitted to vehicles such as the Golf GTI, Focus ST, Audi S3, Octavia RS and the test car used, the Mazda3 MPS.

The top 4

Following on the trend from 2010 the Hankook S1 EVO scored strongly in all the tests to take the overall win, closely followed by the new P Zero and the Conitnental Sport Contact 3. The old pattern Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric finished 4th, critisied for its high rolling resistance and noise levels, something the Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 has addressed.

The rest

In 5th place was a tyre reviews favorite, the Uniroyal Rainsport 2. Dubbed the “wet weather specialist”, the Uniroyal scored well in aquaplaning, wet handling, comfort and noise, only slightly let down by its subjective feel on the dry track. 6th place went to the new Potenza S001, which was again let down by its wet handling after excellent scores in the dry tests. The old pattern Dunlop Sport Maxx TT finished 7th, which must be due for a replacement soon and disappointly, the relatively new Michelin Pilot Sport 3 finished 8th, scoring well in the noise, comfort and rolling resistance tests but let down by its “sporty characteristics”. Roll on the true Pilot Sport 3, the Michelin Pilot Super Sport! 9th went to the Falken ZE912, again let down by its more touring nature while last place was awarded to the Linglong L688, which was given a huge “NOT RECOMMENDED” stamp and the worst wet score we’ve ever seen. Budgets... who’d fit them!

The results

1st: Hankook Ventus S1 evo
Total: 48 / Dry: 8 / Wet: 9 / Rolling Resistance: 9 / Comfort: 6 / Noise: 8 / Overall: 8
Positive: Sport tires with good driving performance on wet and dry roads. Impeccable handling and Stable cornering on a wet runway. Short wet and dry braking distances, encouraging low rolling resistance.
Negative: Average ride comfort

2nd: Pirelli P Zero
Total: 44 / Dry: 10 / Wet: 8 / Rolling Resistance: 6 / Comfort: 6 / Noise: 6 / Wear: 0 / Overall: 8
Positive: Top tires balanced sports handling qualities. Good steering response with good feedback and dynamic driving performance on dry roads. Shortest stopping distances on wet and dry roads
Negative: Average reserves to aquaplaning

3rd: Continental Sport Contact 3
Total: 45 / Dry: 8 / Wet: 8 / Rolling Resistance: 9 / Comfort: 5 / Noise: 8 / Overall: 7
Positive: All round talent with balanced handling in all weather conditions. Good steering precision and cornering stability on dry roads. Short braking distances on wet track, encouraging low rolling resistance
Negative: Moderate ride comfort

4th: Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric
Total: 41 / Dry: 8 / Wet: 8 / Rolling Resistance: 6 / Comfort: 7 / Noise: 5 / Wear: 0 / Overall: 7
Positive: Dynamic all-rounder with very good handling on wet surfaces. High levels of resistance to aquaplaning, good ride comfort
Negative: Relatively high rolling noise, rolling resistance slightly increased

5th: Uniroyal Rainsport 2
Total: 46 / Dry: 6 / Wet: 8 / Rolling Resistance: 7 / Comfort: 8 / Noise: 10 / Overall: 7
Positive: The wet weather specialist sport tyre. Excellent safety reserves with aquaplaning, short wet and dry stopping distances, very quiet road noise
Negative: Delayed steering response and steering when sporty driving on dry roads

6th: Bridgestone Potenza S001
Total: 41 / Dry: 9 / Wet: 7 / Rolling Resistance: 5 / Comfort: 8 / Noise: 5 / Overall: 7
Positive: Specialises in dry conditions with dynamic sporty handling, good steering precision and short braking distances. Good reserves to aquaplaning
Negative: Slightly longer braking distances in wet conditions, higher rolling resistance, road noise loudest.

7th: Dunlop SP Sport Maxx TT
Total: 39 / Dry: 7 / Wet: 7 / Rolling Resistance: 7 / Comfort: 6 / Noise: 6 / Overall: 6
Positive: Good tires balanced without ups and downs, good aquaplaning safety reserves and short braking distances on wet and dry roads.
Negative: Slightly less grip in wet conditions, moderate ride comfort.

8th: Michelin Pilot Sport 3 PS3
Total: 42 / Dry: 6 / Wet: 6 / Rolling Resistance: 8 / Comfort: 7 / Noise: 8 / Overall: 7
Positive: Good aquaplaning safety margins, more comfortable ride comfort, low rolling resistance
Negative: Moderate handling characteristics with a clear tendency to understeer on wet road, braking performance is average

9th: Falken ZE912
Total: 29 / Dry: 4 / Wet: 3 / Rolling Resistance: 6 / Comfort: 3 / Noise: 8 / Overall: 5
Positive: low rolling resistance and extremely quiet
Negative: Poor driving behavior, delayed steering response and reduced lateral support, long braking distances on wet roads, reduced ride comfort

10th: Linglong L688
Total: 20 / Dry: 2 / Wet: -2 / Rolling Resistance: 7 / Comfort: 2 / Noise: 8 / Overall: 3
Positive: Low noise, low rolling resistance.
Negative: Poor understeer and load change-prone performance on wet and dry roads, dangerously long braking distances on wet roads, poor ride comfort.
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Old 21-07-2011   #14
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Re: Tyre Time Again

Quote Originally Posted by J333EVO View Post
Hankook Ventus EVO is current flavour of month with Clio RS owners dismayed at the discontinuation of the Michelin PE2 with the PS3 (replaces PS2 as well) which is not objectively felt to be as good.

The excellent German magazine Auto Bild have just published their 2011 max performance summer tyre test covering 10 tyres. Auto Bild decided to use the the popular 225/40 r18 tyre size, fitted to vehicles such as the Golf GTI, Focus ST, Audi S3, Octavia RS and the test car used, the Mazda3 MPS.
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2010-EVO-Tyre-Test.htm
Unfair test with an MX5 used as the ‘mule’

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2011-Sport-Auto-Max-Performance-Summer-Tyre-Test.htm
Michelin Pilot on ‘top’

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2010-Autocar-Tyre-Test-FWD.htm
Vredestein Ultrac Cento came ‘tops’

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre-Size/17-Inch-Tyres/205-40-17-Tyres.htm
Overall test by people who bought the tyres.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2011-Autobild-Max-Performance-Summer-Tyre-Test.htm
I’m confused now.

Quote Originally Posted by grimwau View Post
Come on Michael there must still be some links on the internet you haven't posted yet where they could still be hiding.
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Old 21-07-2011   #15
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Re: Tyre Time Again

Quote Originally Posted by jimbro1000 View Post
I've been through any number of different makes and models over the years in the name of keeping my TVRs pointing in the right direction or for racing in production spec classes. I used to favour the Toyos but since they scrapped the T1-S I haven't gone near them after my first encounter with the T1-R which was a massive disappointment.
The T1R is being phased out in favour of the new T1 Sport. had a long chat with their technical bods as I run the T1R on another car & they genuinly feel its a vast improvement but I havent heard any independant views. A lot seem to be going away from Toyo as the tread pattern of the new one dosent look as good, surely performance matters more !

Toyo developed it in conjunction with Audi

http://www.toyo.co.uk/tire/pattern/proxes-t1-sport
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