General Top Gear and more.

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General Top Gear and more.

I agree the show has changed direction from what it was.Years ago it was a car show telling you about cars in detail.
Who remembers Wheelbase before Top Gear? That was a real car show about cars,showing you the engine,dash,boot etc.
Today,Top gear is a lads mag show.They pretend the chat between the boys is all off the cuff,when infact it is rehearsed over and over to the smallest detail. I think it is crazy the way no matter which car they have,it is screaming round the track sideways with tyres smoking.Even cars like the Jaguar XF.Will a business man who buys that type of car drive it like that on the road? Of course not.
Men and Motors on Sky had some good car shows,but it has been taken off. They do say Top Gear has far more viewers these days,but i think for us Petrol heads,we just laugh at the show.

I wouldn't say anything smart examiner - but a little look on the US forum might prove interesting. :)

I used to watch Men & Motors - it has some excellent shows, which focused on the cars - unfortunately I no longer have that station with my cost cutting manoeuvre to Freeview. I didn't know that it is 'gone off' Sky.

But the irony of it is that I for me I still feel compelled to watch the show even though I know it is a lot of c**p. Still I cann't help thinking that its days are numbered so while it's still on I'm making the most of it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/blog/2009/aug/03/clarkson-hints-top-gear-over

http://www.topgear.com/uk/jeremy-clarkson/clarkson-future-02-2009
In the real world, away from the wide open spaces of the Top Gear test track, a Fiat 500 is much more fun to drive than a Zonda
 
While Top Gear is being franchised off around the world and the likes of Clarkson and co are making a healthy wage out of the proceeds (thanks Dave) it is highly unlikely the show is going to finish any time soon.

For all the scripting that goes on a lot of what goes on in the studio is fairly impromptu - I've been there during a filming session and it is pretty relentless. There are no multiple takes on the "live" pieces so anything that has the audience in it you can be pretty sure is reasonably rough and ready - the director will try for the occasional "different" view if something catches his eye and they really do shuffle the audience to get the eye candy where they want it (not to an extreme though).

As for the Zonda vs 500 comparison - anyone who has experienced "big" power cars in the real world knows the truth of that. It takes a special kind of masochist to use such a thing every day and a total lunatic to enjoy the car in every day scenarios. Fiat have long known the truth of this - pumping out generations of small, underpowered hatchbacks that handle far better than they should with the result that everything outside of "stuck in a traffic jam" can be enjoyable (no-one has found a cure for the traffic jam problem yet).

Not everyone gets it and just wants more acceleration but you can't please everyone!
 
While Top Gear is being franchised off around the world and the likes of Clarkson and co are making a healthy wage out of the proceeds (thanks Dave) it is highly unlikely the show is going to finish any time soon.

For all the scripting that goes on a lot of what goes on in the studio is fairly impromptu - I've been there during a filming session and it is pretty relentless. There are no multiple takes on the "live" pieces so anything that has the audience in it you can be pretty sure is reasonably rough and ready - the director will try for the occasional "different" view if something catches his eye and they really do shuffle the audience to get the eye candy where they want it (not to an extreme though).

As for the Zonda vs 500 comparison - anyone who has experienced "big" power cars in the real world knows the truth of that. It takes a special kind of masochist to use such a thing every day and a total lunatic to enjoy the car in every day scenarios. Fiat have long known the truth of this - pumping out generations of small, underpowered hatchbacks that handle far better than they should with the result that everything outside of "stuck in a traffic jam" can be enjoyable (no-one has found a cure for the traffic jam problem yet).

Not everyone gets it and just wants more acceleration but you can't please everyone!

Ross Noble did mention in his talk 'at' Jeremy (Jeremy couldn't control him) about the good looking girls around the stage and the darting eye problems that the guys would be suffering. Having a gender mix is good for ratings and minimises the male presence that is very prominent at shows like this. Generally bikers are a bit touched - I was one for the Summer in the early 80s having come from racing a bicycle for a couple of years. I wasn't surprised at him getting '2nd place'. Having working with a colleague who raced motorbikes - he informed me that guys at the 'top' have a death wish and only win on days that 'they have nothing to lose'.

Top gear was in Dublin once and all the tickets were gone in a matter of minutes. They reckon that on a 'per minute basis' it is the top grossing show.
 
Top gear maintains a strict 50:50 ratio on the audience. Tickets are always issued as pairs and heaven help you if lie about who you are giving the second ticket to...

I know what you mean about the bikers too. My father raced bikes and gave up when the sudden realisation that it was going to kill him made its way into his conscious thoughts (shortly after his bike disintegrated underneath him at speed). I've known enough death wish bikers to appreciate just how true the comment about "nothing to lose" really is.

On the other hand you have car racers like myself who tend to develop a rather adolescent feeling of invincibility once they get behind the wheel of a race car (road cars just don't encourage the same mind set). It is quite amazing how much physical abuse we suffer just without hitting anything. Big impacts tend to feel minor and it is only the really death defying stuff that makes you stop and think - usually thoughts about how to avoid the same mistake on the next lap. Two of my fellow racers have died while racing and I don't think any of us hold any real illusions about how delicate the human body can be with the result that there is a level of trust between experienced racers that your competitors aren't going to do anything monumentally stupid that is going to put everyone in hospital (or the morgue). Putting yourself in hospital is fair game of course - just so long as you don't take anyone with you. Then you get the idiots who do try monumentally stupid stuff and they tend to get a wide berth, they don't tend to stay in racing for too long or they learn very quickly - very, very few persist with that kind of attitude and get anywhere with it.
 
Top gear maintains a strict 50:50 ratio on the audience. Tickets are always issued as pairs and heaven help you if lie about who you are giving the second ticket to...

I know what you mean about the bikers too. My father raced bikes and gave up when the sudden realisation that it was going to kill him made its way into his conscious thoughts (shortly after his bike disintegrated underneath him at speed). I've known enough death wish bikers to appreciate just how true the comment about "nothing to lose" really is.

On the other hand you have car racers like myself who tend to develop a rather adolescent feeling of invincibility once they get behind the wheel of a race car (road cars just don't encourage the same mind set). It is quite amazing how much physical abuse we suffer just without hitting anything. Big impacts tend to feel minor and it is only the really death defying stuff that makes you stop and think - usually thoughts about how to avoid the same mistake on the next lap. Two of my fellow racers have died while racing and I don't think any of us hold any real illusions about how delicate the human body can be with the result that there is a level of trust between experienced racers that your competitors aren't going to do anything monumentally stupid that is going to put everyone in hospital (or the morgue). Putting yourself in hospital is fair game of course - just so long as you don't take anyone with you. Then you get the idiots who do try monumentally stupid stuff and they tend to get a wide berth, they don't tend to stay in racing for too long or they learn very quickly - very, very few persist with that kind of attitude and get anywhere with it.

Thank you for the very frank response jimbro. You learn to know who is around you and also to avoid those who are not experienced. Your life can literally be in the hands of those that you are racing against. It took 3 trips to hospital from a bicycle accident (I was out training - a bit ironic - I wasn't even racing) in my late teens for a 'new nose' compliments to the handle on the back window of a Hillman Imp that overheated on a hill that it shouldn't have been on. When I took up a 'safe' sport of windsurfing I didn't foresee getting reconstructive surgery on my left shoulder when I got catapulted in a wind that picked up to 'Storm' Force 7. Given my track history I appreciate airbags, ABS, crumple zones and whenever the manufactures can put into a car. It was a factor in not buying a 205GTI (or an 'old' Mark 1 GTI) that is ongoing on the 500 section. I have limited my 'racing days' to go karts (although I would still like to do the Nuburgring) and have reduced the number of times I go a year because I know the recovery rate when I stupidly burnt my arm off the exhaust. I have learned to concentrate at all times even on a leisurely spin because I don't for a moment believe that I have 'lucky' genes.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_died_in_road_accidents"]List of people who died in road accidents - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

P.S. That's a good one about tickets having to be bought in pairs (y) - good excuse for dragging the OH along if Top Gear appear in Dublin again.:)
 
This is a proper car review by Chris Harris who writes for EVO mag & competes as a raceing driver. Although it doesn't actually include any Fiat, sorry Abarth lol but does have DS3 Racing RS Clio Corsa VXR Mini Cooper S Polo GTi.

Funnily enough Top Gear Magazine when it did it's hot hatch mega test rated the RS Clio as the best hot hatch you could buy & that included larger cars like the Golf GTi & Focus RS, again shoeing how irrelevant the entertainment show is when it comes to some form of consumer advice.

 
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This is a proper car review by Chris Harris who writes for EVO mag & competes as a raceing driver. Although it doesn't actually include any Fiat, sorry Abarth lol but does have DS3 Racing RS Clio Corsa VXR Mini Cooper S Polo GTi.

Funnily enough Top Gear Magazine when it did it's hot hatch mega test rated the RS Clio as the best hot hatch you could buy & that included larger cars like the Golf GTi & Focus RS, again shoeing how irrelevant the entertainment show is when it comes to some form of consumer advice.

YouTube - ‪Citroen DS3 Racing v hot hatchback rivals - evo Magazine‬‏
I've ALWAYS loved EVO :) Chris did nothing there other than talk about how the car drove with a little talk about the interior. Which tbh is my sort of journalism :)
 
This is a proper car review by Chris Harris who writes for EVO mag & competes as a raceing driver. Although it doesn't actually include any Fiat, sorry Abarth lol but does have DS3 Racing RS Clio Corsa VXR Mini Cooper S Polo GTi.

Funnily enough Top Gear Magazine when it did it's hot hatch mega test rated the RS Clio as the best hot hatch you could buy & that included larger cars like the Golf GTi & Focus RS, again shoeing how irrelevant the entertainment show is when it comes to some form of consumer advice.

YouTube - ‪Citroen DS3 Racing v hot hatchback rivals - evo Magazine‬‏

Thanks for postig that J333EVO. If the A500SS was in there I reckon it would have come between the 2nd placed Mini and the 3rd over priced DS3 Racing. It's ironic how the Renault in having a non aspirated engine (no turbo) and a Cup special chasis won the day.
Still if I had a choice I would still go for the A500 despite not being quick enough in the BMW 1.6 turbo category, having too stiff a ride on the SS (doesn't suit bouncy roads like the ones on the 'moors' - a decent set of Konis might sort this out), etc.
For me I have always liked being the underdog. Having a car that is under-estimated but has the will and determination to success is part of what Abarth is all about - Fiat were always good at doing little cars that has something special and were good fun to drive - something that was missing from that DS3 Racing with all its sophistication.:)
Still my hat goes off to the Clio.
 
Thanks for postig that J333EVO. If the A500SS was in there I reckon it would have come between the 2nd placed Mini and the 3rd over priced DS3 Racing. It's ironic how the Renault in having a non aspirated engine (no turbo) and a Cup special chasis won the day.
Still if I had a choice I would still go for the A500 despite not being quick enough in the BMW 1.6 turbo category, having too stiff a ride on the SS (doesn't suit bouncy roads like the ones on the 'moors' - a decent set of Konis might sort this out), etc.
For me I have always liked being the underdog. Having a car that is under-estimated but has the will and determination to success is part of what Abarth is all about - Fiat were always good at doing little cars that has something special and were good fun to drive - something that was missing from that DS3 Racing with all its sophistication.:)
Still my hat goes off to the Clio.

Why would you go for the car which out of those 6 (the 5 in the test + the Abarth) would certainly be 4th at best and probably 5th IMHO with the Chavsa VXR in 6th.

The problem with the Abarth is that a performance car should never need its dampers and springs changed when new to give you the performance the car deserves. Fit always love to test their cars on Balocco which is nice and smooth and simply doesn't reflect the conditions that it will encounter on the road in the UK.

A good hot hatch like a 306 GTi-6 or a Rennosport Clio will usually come with a warning on forums that it's best to leave the car completely standard in terms of wheels and suspension because the factory got it SO right in the first place.
 
Why would you go for the car which out of those 6 (the 5 in the test + the Abarth) would certainly be 4th at best and probably 5th IMHO with the Chavsa VXR in 6th.

The problem with the Abarth is that a performance car should never need its dampers and springs changed when new to give you the performance the car deserves. Fit always love to test their cars on Balocco which is nice and smooth and simply doesn't reflect the conditions that it will encounter on the road in the UK.

A good hot hatch like a 306 GTi-6 or a Rennosport Clio will usually come with a warning on forums that it's best to leave the car completely standard in terms of wheels and suspension because the factory got it SO right in the first place.
Why would you go for the car which out of those 6 (the 5 in the test + the Abarth) would certainly be 4th at best and probably 5th IMHO with the Chavsa VXR in 6th. The problem with the Abarth is that a performance car should never need its dampers and springs changed when new to give you the performance the car deserves. Fit always love to test their cars on Balocco which is nice and smooth and simply doesn't reflect the conditions that it will encounter on the road in the UK.
A good hot hatch like a 306 GTi-6 or a Rennosport Clio will usually come with a warning on forums that it's best to leave the car completely standard in terms of wheels and suspension because the factory got it SO right in the first place.

There's 2 excellent threads going this 'evening' - Lloyds 106 (Bye Bye 500) and this one with some excellent inputs. I'm really in the ha'penny place when it comes to this company but I was surprised that I shortlisted a 106GTI back in the late 90s as a successor to a RS and a MX5. I would like to think that I'm good at picking cars.:)

Of the cars reviewed above : Polo - they could never get the Golf magic into it - so it ended up muted ; VXR - Vauxhall seemed to get the power but couldn't get the suspension right ; Minis - after having a BMW - I don't particularily want to become a customer of them again - but they tick all the boxs - yet I still don't desire one. DS3 Racing - advertised in Ireland upwards of €32K and only serious enquiries need apply :confused: - reviews are mixed but you do appear to be paying a lot for your car. I have looked at one in an Ikea car park :eek: about 3 weeks ago but nothing 'stirred'.

The Clio reviewed is of course the one with the Cup chasis and there is no denying that it is a brillant handler but emissions are high at 195grs/km which would affect VRT and for me in Ireland would attract a road tax of €1,050 a year :eek:. (155grs/km => €305 p.a.) Couple this with the spartan interior it does not look very special. Plus I'm not a Renault fan with their reliability and after care in the dungeon. It might qualify as a Q car. ;)

So that leaves the A500. Excellent value in the UK :). Great fun - as Hamster said 'I wouldn't change a thing' but I would strongly consider a set of Konis because the beancounters got at the standard shocks.
 
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Sadly the subject of emissions has reared it's ugly head & one should rejoice at the RS Clio as it could be with present outdated & frankly ridiculous measurement criteria the last swansong of the naturally aspirated high revving engine in mainstream manufacturing. It's already killed off the Civic Type-R/S2000 engine.

The next Clio RS will ge 1.6 turbo with no doubt more power circa 220bhp I'd guess, from a development of the engine found in the Nissan Juke, as it saves costs with Renault owning Nissan.

Anyway I digress, the 500 Abarth has already had a full road test in EVO mag V's Clio, Mini & DS3 Sport & came last. The 500 Abarth was an owner from the Abarth forums car. I would therefore believe given it was outscored by the lesser 150bhp model the 203bhp Racing model would prove to be too high a target to aim for.

I read I think in CAR magazine that the true quality of the RS products shines through once you drive them. The money has been spent on the chassis, the engineering, the purity of the car, to indulge you in the experience. Not on tarting up an interior in an effort to deceive like the 500 dies with it's even compared to my older generation Clio very poor quality interior. The dash and door cards are very brittle plastic, my Clio has fully upholstered dash and door cards, no scratchiness. An example of this is the wheel bearings, the Clio Cup has updated wheel bearings and different hubs from non Cups so that they withstand trackdays, the dampers are not interchangeable because of this, & of course totally different from normal Clios, Abarth 500 runs nothing different from a normal 500, it's all interchangeable this saves costs but means its compromised. It's this integrity you don't see.

As for reliability RS products should be viewed in isolation from the normal stuff, but I know of a Clio Trophy with 174,000miles on it, a car that did 70,000 in it's first 11months of ownership in 2005 & apart from consumables line tyres, brakes etc has had nothing fail, not even the alternator & it's now a pure track day car getting nothing but abuse. With only 500 made & all numbered most are traceable through dedicated owners club site.

Jamie86 on here's Clio 172 has over 100,000miles on it now, had no oil change for 30k which included 100+ laps of Castle Combe & apart from neglect on his part when the auxiliary belt should have been changed 12k earlier snapped taking out cambelt & a tired engine mount which snapped at Cadwell Park on a track day has been very reliable.

Some cars achieve greatness through time, some with motorsport achievement, some by being rule changers, MK2 Golf GTi, 106 Rallye, 306 GTi-6/Rallye, Honda Integra DC2 Type-R, Clio Williams, Clio Trophy, Megane R26R even the EP3 Civic Type-R with it's 6 speed gearbox & 2L 197bhp 8000rpm engine combo being offered at a time when the crap Golf MK4 GTi was still geing sold with it's asthmatic 2L 115bhp 5speed combo moved the game on to such sn extent that suddenly 200bhp was seen as almost a must for a hot match, not an exclusivity reserved for bigger cars.

The present Abarth products havnt done this & as a 7 tenths car is brilliant, but it's not game changing as it falls apart at 8 tenths.

Of course we are all biased, myself included as I have put two of my present cars on that list of greats!
 
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Sadly the subject of emissions has reared it's ugly head & one should rejoice at the RS Clio as it could be with present outdated & frankly ridiculous measurement criteria the last swansong of the naturally aspirated high revving engine in mainstream manufacturing. It's already killed off the Civic Type-R/S2000 engine.

The next Clio RS will ge 1.6 turbo with no doubt more power circa 220bhp I'd guess, from a development of the engine found in the Nissan Juke, as it saves costs with Renault owning Nissan.

Anyway I digress, the 500 Abarth has already had a full road test in EVO mag V's Clio, Mini & DS3 Sport & came last. The 500 Abarth was an owner from the Abarth forums car. I would therefore believe given it was outscored by the lesser 150bhp model the 203bhp Racing model would prove to be too high a target to aim for.

I read I think in CAR magazine that the true quality of the RS products shines through once you drive them. The money has been spent on the chassis, the engineering, the purity of the car, to indulge you in the experience. Not on tarting up an interior in an effort to deceive like the 500 dies with it's even compared to my older generation Clio very poor quality interior. The dash and door cards are very brittle plastic, my Clio has fully upholstered dash and door cards, no scratchiness. An example of this is the wheel bearings, the Clio Cup has updated wheel bearings and different hubs from non Cups so that they withstand trackdays, the dampers are not interchangeable because of this, & of course totally different from normal Clios, Abarth 500 runs nothing different from a normal 500, it's all interchangeable this saves costs but means its compromised. It's this integrity you don't see.

As for reliability RS products should be viewed in isolation from the normal stuff, but I know of a Clio Trophy with 174,000miles on it, a car that did 70,000 in it's first 11months of ownership in 2005 & apart from consumables line tyres, brakes etc has had nothing fail, not even the alternator & it's now a pure track day car getting nothing but abuse. With only 500 made & all umber most are traceable through dedicated owners club site.

Jamie86 on here's Clio 172 has over 100,000miles on it now, had no oil change for 30k which included 100+ laps of Castle Combe & apart from neglect on his part when the auxiliary belt should have been changed 12k earlier snapped taking out cambelt & a tired engine mount which snapped at Cadwell Park on a track day has been very reliable.
I used to work with a guy who had a Clio 172 which had a nice set of Mark Fish setup coilovers, carbon fibre bonnet, pagid yellow pads and some carbon fibre seats. He took me for a ride in it and I was freaking gobsmacked at how well the thing cornered. He was going stupidly fast around corners and the tyres weren't even squealing...... Last thing I heard he was caging it as he wanted to run slicks on track days....
 
Looked at the the DS3 Racing at Goodwood, pretty impressed with the quality and the mix of finishes and materials used, which can be said throughout the much improved Citreon range.

Seats are way more comfortable than the Abarth ones, which wouldn't be difficult!

Although I like cars a bit different, I think I would opt for the white/grey colour option!

Shame the driving reviews haven't been too great...
 
Shame the driving reviews haven't been too great...

I suspect the cost has played a big part in that, oh and the fact that PSA haven't made a car that handles properly since they killed off the 306 GTi-6/Rallye and 106 GTi/Rallye so I guess it takes a bit of time to regain your magic touch.

I think if I were having to choose between the 500 and the DS3 Racing I'd choose the 500 on price, but then again if we include the DS3 sport.... I'd probably take that.
 
Sadly the subject of emissions has reared it's ugly head & one should rejoice at the RS Clio as it could be with present outdated & frankly ridiculous measurement criteria the last swansong of the naturally aspirated high revving engine in mainstream manufacturing. It's already killed off the Civic Type-R/S2000 engine.

The next Clio RS will ge 1.6 turbo with no doubt more power circa 220bhp I'd guess, from a development of the engine found in the Nissan Juke, as it saves costs with Renault owning Nissan.

Anyway I digress, the 500 Abarth has already had a full road test in EVO mag V's Clio, Mini & DS3 Sport & came last. The 500 Abarth was an owner from the Abarth forums car. I would therefore believe given it was outscored by the lesser 150bhp model the 203bhp Racing model would prove to be too high a target to aim for.

I read I think in CAR magazine that the true quality of the RS products shines through once you drive them. The money has been spent on the chassis, the engineering, the purity of the car, to indulge you in the experience. Not on tarting up an interior in an effort to deceive like the 500 dies with it's even compared to my older generation Clio very poor quality interior. The dash and door cards are very brittle plastic, my Clio has fully upholstered dash and door cards, no scratchiness. An example of this is the wheel bearings, the Clio Cup has updated wheel bearings and different hubs from non Cups so that they withstand trackdays, the dampers are not interchangeable because of this, & of course totally different from normal Clios, Abarth 500 runs nothing different from a normal 500, it's all interchangeable this saves costs but means its compromised. It's this integrity you don't see.

As for reliability RS products should be viewed in isolation from the normal stuff, but I know of a Clio Trophy with 174,000miles on it, a car that did 70,000 in it's first 11months of ownership in 2005 & apart from consumables line tyres, brakes etc has had nothing fail, not even the alternator & it's now a pure track day car getting nothing but abuse. With only 500 made & all numbered most are traceable through dedicated owners club site.

Jamie86 on here's Clio 172 has over 100,000miles on it now, had no oil change for 30k which included 100+ laps of Castle Combe & apart from neglect on his part when the auxiliary belt should have been changed 12k earlier snapped taking out cambelt & a tired engine mount which snapped at Cadwell Park on a track day has been very reliable.

Some cars achieve greatness through time, some with motorsport achievement, some by being rule changers, MK2 Golf GTi, 106 Rallye, 306 GTi-6/Rallye, Honda Integra DC2 Type-R, Clio Williams, Clio Trophy, Megane R26R even the EP3 Civic Type-R with it's 6 speed gearbox & 2L 197bhp 8000rpm engine combo being offered at a time when the crap Golf MK4 GTi was still geing sold with it's asthmatic 2L 115bhp 5speed combo moved the game on to such sn extent that suddenly 200bhp was seen as almost a must for a hot match, not an exclusivity reserved for bigger cars.

The present Abarth products havnt done this & as a 7 tenths car is brilliant, but it's not game changing as it falls apart at 8 tenths.

Of course we are all biased, myself included as I have put two of my present cars on that list of greats!

If you look at the competition that the A500 is in with the Clio, DS3 Racing, Mini - these are cars with engines exceeding 1600cc - maybe it's time that the Abarth Punto Evo stepped in with its Multi-air engine and 6 speed gearbox - at least in body size they appear to be evenly matched. :)
On a 'head to head' for the A500 against a RS Twingo - I didn't think that was a fair match :)but that one was won on grunt.
Looking at the 'lowly' 1.4 against the Mini One (done for price), Fiat won this one but just about.
A500 against the Mini Cooper S it couldn't compete against the dynamics of the MINI but the reviewer preferred the A500 even though it wasn't as good but couldn't explain why (I forget the reviewer but I probably could find him).:)

If you look at the size of the 500 and in A500 it is thought of a 'mighty mouse' - there is limits to what you can do with it. The 205 in particular (I'm unsure as to why the 106 worked) was a car you could not trust on the twisties hence the reason why a lot of pug enthusiasts that I knew migrated to the 306. I reckon Fiat or should I say Abarth know the limits of the A500 and have probably made a decision not to lash money into it like the RS boys have done with the Clio chassis - because they know they have the 'right size' chassis.

Can we expect better things with the US 2012 chasis ? Will this form a better blueprint for a 8 tenths + car. Abarth clearly have the ‘know how’ judging by their track history and expertise - it will be down to heads of power if they will be given the budget to be let loose. In the interim - is there any reason why they cann't apply some of the tuning work that is in the Assetto Corse to a 'proper' SS model ?


EDIT: Found it ! :)
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/234172/abarth_500_esseesse_v_mini_cooper_s.html
The Abarth isn’t a genuine talent, it can’t match the Mini’s completeness, but despite the flaws it is emphatically not an ersatz hot hatch, a fashion trinket done up in sporting bling. It knows how to show you a good time. That’s enough. More than enough.
 
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The standard 500Abarth was reviewed by EVO V's the Suzuki Swift Sport, Twingo RS & Mitsubishi Colt Ralliart & the Colt was easily quickest in straight line followed by the Abarth yet over some great roads from Poole up to Wiltshire that I know from living there, the Twingo & Swift were deemed the best cars.

You have to consider that reviewers often compare cars on price not size, a Swift or Twingo can be had for 11-12k and have insurance groups if about 18-20, Abarth with no extras is £14400 and insurance group 26 add an SS kit on you're up to nearly £16k & insurance group 28, yet a Clio 200 Cup is £15600 insurance group 33.

The 500 then is maybe in size a Swift/Twingo competitor, but in price & insurance nearer the Clio, so it finds itself occupying a sort of middle ground.

The fact is I saw the other day a 500 Abarth with SS kit, Sabelt seats, Monza exhaust, xenon lights was £20800!! So you can't tell me it's a direct competitor to an £11k Twingo Cup, it's even more expensive than the limited edition Silverstone GP Clio 200 which gets Recaros numbered plaques as only 50 made, unique silver paint, black Speedline wheels, black mirrors & roof, Renaultsport Monitor, free entry to a Renaultsport UK organized track day of your choice with tuition, cup pack suspension & all the normal stuff like Brembos etc for £20k which ClioSport owners thought was a crazy price!

Punto has no SS kit yet and can't live with the Clio even if it does run a Corsa chassis, hence the GM spec 100PCD & 54mm centre bore not 98pcd 56mm centre bore of Fiat. The multiair engine is a brilliant bit of kit, it realky is, but the 6speed box in the Punto has a long throw if precise throw it's no Clio 200/Suzuki Swift sweet shifter & is quite frankly a bit ugly. How they took one of the best looking hatches about in the Grande Punto & called that evolution is beyond me.

Forgot to add the Trofeo cars were not that different from the road cars, Punto 6speed box H pattern box in a race car?????? You can see why they broke, bigger Garret turbo & fuel rail from the GPA SS, some dodgy dampers made by a mountain bike company (I kid you not) LSD, Brembos from Punto with Fiat Coupe discs, Michelin tyres from Clio Cup but with an Abarth stamp on side & £30 a tyre more expensive.

Hubs that lasted one race, studs that snapped, clutches that stopped working after leaking fluid.

I did a little work on them pre season so know the cars well.

For not much more you could buy a Clio Cup with Sadev sequential box that would last a season if not two, manufacturer support, proper Bilstein suspension etc etc hence shy the Trofeo ended after one uncompetative season sadly as I would have liked it to continue & the Clis as ever go from strength to strenghth grooming the next BTCC drivers.
 
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I disagree on the A500 falling apart when pushed. What I do believe though is that at base spec (non-SS) it is more fun than the fully spec'd up version. The SS might be quicker in a straight line but when it comes to fun on twisties (or track) the stock car offers much better and much more balanced performance and, subsequently, fun.

At full on 10/10ths the brakes start to get suspect and the tyres can't sustain the punishment but then again they are road tyres and not track tyres so this is hardly a surprise. Everything else is beautifully balanced and set up for driver enjoyment. The SS kit might give you more but it spoils the balance and edges the chassis closer to its limits.

If I really had to pick fault with the car it would be the artificially weighted steering - it is ok but not anywhere near the league of the other cars (this is particularly where the RS Twingo wins out) that keep getting mentioned. One of the things that makes the RS Clios stand out is the amazing degree of control you have and how much you can adjust the path of the car when cornering heavily. You just can't do the same in an A500 although it does a reasonable impression.

Some years ago I drove a number of cars back-to-back at Brands Hatch and the best car there by miles was a Clio 172 that had been breathed on a little to bring the engine up to 192 spec (and maybe a bit beyond). The chassis didn't need or want adjustment, just a little tweaking of tyre pressures. Lap times were amazing and for a road car it was easily banging on the sort of times expected of tin top race cars of that era. Give it some slicks and slightly stiffer suspension and I reckon you could have easily outpaced most of the cars I was racing against at the time in Eurosaloons (some of which were Clios). You are never going to get this out of the 500 chassis - not in the current generation of cars. No amount of careful setup is going to overcome the fundamental shortcomings of the design - you could improve it but the RS Clios were designed from the ground up to do this sort of thing and it shows. The only other car I would put in the same bracket was the DC2 Integra Type-R and strangely enough Honda did much the same thing with the chassis as Renault did for the Clios - it was a ground up design exercise on a clean sheet that got turned into a road car. Put a DC2 and a Clio 192 on the same track though and the Clio will show it a clean pair of heels, the best part of a decade seperates the designs and it shows.

The problem is that I've driven 3 generations of RS Clios and they are all good but aesthetically they do nothing for me at all. I would much rather have my A500 and enjoy it as it is, for what it is - a damn good piece of fun in a tin box.
 
Interesting points but nobody has touched on depreciation, the Abarth 500 seems to be holding up pretty well, will the others fare as well, then theres kerb appeal, no way of gauging that but the number of positive comments we still get about my Wifes Abarth amases me, do the others get those, especially from people who arent particularly into cars
 
Interesting points but nobody has touched on depreciation, the Abarth 500 seems to be holding up pretty well, will the others fare as well, then theres kerb appeal, no way of gauging that but the number of positive comments we still get about my Wifes Abarth amases me, do the others get those, especially from people who arent particularly into cars
Yes, I've had people come up to me and talk about our 500, people have asked at work etc etc etc.
 
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